Dr. Ursula Barry:

Research across various countries has shown that when it comes to the care burden, which Professor Murphy mentioned, the management and organisation of household care needs in heterosexual couples come down to women, even when both parties in the couple are full-time employees. There has been very little shift in the management, organisation, identification and hiring of care, so that responsibility comes down to the woman in the couple. The research on that is very strong. We recently introduced paternity leave, which is a very good thing. At the same time, we are still operating on the basis there is six months' maternity leave and a number of weeks' paternity leave. From the very outset, therefore, we structure care in such a way that the responsibility is assumed to be primarily the woman's. That shift and change of culture will need time; it will not happen very quickly. I believe there is evidence in the younger generation of more equal sharing of care responsibilities. That is driven a lot by men's expectations of having closer connection to their children and child-rearing. It is not just about women.

Another thing struck me in what Deputy Carroll MacNeill said. I have been involved in a European level gender equality research network for many years. One of the things that has fascinated me is that when care is talked about in the Nordic countries, Finland in particular, it is not to facilitate employment but in the context of the quality of care received. That includes the care of young children. The care of young children is not seen in the Nordic countries as a means to allow women to access paid work. Rather, quality of care is seen as in the interests of the children, particularly those in working-class or disadvantaged areas. It is seen as child-driven, not driven by employment policy. That is quite an important distinction to make as to how our culture looks at the question of care. There is less and less confidence the hybrid system people have been thinking may emerge from the pandemic will be the outcome and more and more of a tendency to go back to pre-pandemic normalisation.

However, the percentage of women in administrative or managerial jobs or in professional areas is increasing quite significantly in Ireland. Women are achieving a level of seniority in those areas. That will not go away and it will change the nature of the conversation at household level. It changes the assumption that women's work is additional and looks at women's paid work on an equal basis. I think that will shift. Again, there is the matter of time. Cultural shifts take time.