Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I apologise for my absence for a large part of last week's meeting. I was in the Chamber, otherwise engaged, and could not leave.

I welcome our guests and thank Mr. O'Connell for his opening statement. I agree entirely that personal attention to the customer is vital. That will not change. Banking systems, insurance systems and every other system we want to call on can do what they will to make it impersonal in the hope that will stick, but it will not. The closing of branches and ATMs throughout the country is an indication of what the intentions are. Eventually, there will be no branches and they will all disappear. At present, customers have to make phone calls to a call centre, waiting for up to three quarters of an hour to get through. That is utterly crazy nonsense, as though it would be tolerated in any other country, yet we all compete. As an economy, we are in competition with other countries that have better services and facilities.

We all dealt with the banks in the aftermath of the financial crash regarding individual cases. In some cases, customers were treated sympathetically, and in others they were not. It depended on the individual and that still applies. While I accept I was treated with courtesy and respect in my dealings, with very few exceptions, with the banks at management level, it did not always transpire that, in the smaller detail, banking staff were treated all that well. One would have expected that banking staff would be treated with consideration and due respect, not least given most of those people had worked for the banks for several years. They had worked unsocial hours and done all the extra duties they were called on to do, and there was no recognition of that at all. The banks need to remember that now because it is not all over yet. This game is not over, by a long shot.

I return to the closing of ATMs. ATMs have been closed throughout the country but worst of all is the insult that the ATM in the Houses of the Oireachtas was closed. There was not any consultation with the Members and no major upheaval took place, but it went in an instant and banks and financial institutions are since making excuses as to why it should remain closed. Of course, the people we represent throughout the country have no chance if the Houses of the Oireachtas are going to be treated in that fashion. I have had a discussion to say it is of the utmost importance that the banks realise that treating the Houses of the Oireachtas with some degree of respect is also essential. In the course and aftermath of the financial crash, we all made extreme efforts to ensure whatever could be done to assist on either side would be done. We tried to assure customers on a one-to-one basis that all was not lost and that we could recover given time, good advice and good practices. That was not necessarily followed in all cases either, and there were many cases where the banks came forward and said the proposal was unsustainable. They meant it was unsustainable for the bank but there was nothing about the customer, who did not count. In my dealings with senior management in the banks, they were always very courteous and anxious to comply in every way possible. Unfortunately, however, in the small detail and the course of events, that did not always follow. We need some further illumination of what the proposals are. While it was stated in the case of the Houses of the Oireachtas that it would cost too much to maintain an ATM, there is a cost in retaining customer satisfaction as well and that applies at all times to all people in all businesses.

I mentioned the issue of the transfer, which the banks may or may not respond to, as they see fit. The transfer could have been smooth and seamless. That was the way the banks leaving the jurisdiction was supposed to happen. There was supposed to be no impact on the customer, but it is the other way around. The impact is on the customer, the banks do not care and the response involves documents or letters saying the customer are required to do X, Y and Z. Electronically, it is possible to transfer accounts in a way that was never available previously. It involves getting permission from the customer, doing the job that was intended and making it smooth, seamless and effective, but that was not done and we do not know whether it will ever be done or whether it was ever intended to be done. The longer we allow that to continue and the longer we allow ourselves to be treated to be contempt when we raise these questions, the worse that will get and it will develop into something else.

I have mentioned previously the situation whereby bad debts were written off by banks, traditionally, and banks paid income tax. There are still, I have no doubt at all, a large number of bad debts that were written off in a way for some people but not for others. There is a lack of consistency and, certainly, a lack of sustainability in any application of such a regime because, ultimately, customers find out. The theory is that customers do not talk. Customers do talk. Wen they do, they compare notes. If a customer finds he or she was treated in an offhand way by any institution, a bank or otherwise, they will talk and compare notes and differences will be found. There is a need to ensure, insofar as possible, application of a regime throughout the country that is even-handed, courteous and personal.

If the idea is to close down all communication and to have just one central location in the country from which banking will soon operate, although we know that can be done, it cannot be done to customers' satisfaction. In view of the fact that the State is pledged to extending economic activity throughout the country, spreading it all the time and creating jobs and business activity, it is essential that in towns and villages, some with fairly substantial populations, there would be a banking system whereby people can call to branches and get cash if they need it - and do so electronically if they so wish. This nonsense of waiting for three quarters of an hour for somebody to answer a phone is absolutely ridiculous. Do people think we have all gone mad or gone asleep or something? It is just crazy. I strongly advise that the lending institutions recognise that and recognise clearly that the customer counts. If they do not look after their customers, they will fail and there will be further financial difficulties, a lack of investment and of attention, and political and economic implications for both the banks and the general community.

Those are just a couple of matters to which I have referred previously. I have not covered all the issues because I do not wish to take up the time of the meeting, but I say this to banks: take note. When I walk in one morning and see an ATM being wheeled into the Houses of the Oireachtas again, I will see that as a recognition that customers count, that customers throughout the country who, in the first instance, did not count are being recognised once again and that we, the customers here, are being recognised. For God's sake, we should not let banks try to tell us that footfall during the lockdown was not the same as it was before. We know that. That is not an excuse for curtailing activity anywhere other than for the time being.