Mr. Seamus Hoyne:

It is a very good question. Certainly as experience in retrofitting has developed, the original focus for retrofit has been a fabric-first approach, then airtightness, ventilation and introduction of, for example, heat-pump technology, as the mechanism to get one's deep retrofit into the A or B category.

Certainly, in Ireland, as we are greening our grid and decarbonising our grid and the focus moves away from saving kilowatt hours to reducing tonnes of CO2, one can start to have the debate on the analysis where we ask do we need to go for very high specifications in terms of the fabric retrofit measures or can we reduce those slightly or not do the ones that cause significant challenges in terms of implementation, either from a technical or a cost perspective, and get the benefit of the grid to decarbonise the heating, in particular, in the building. There is an evolving debate around that topic in the sector at present and that is happening across Europe. I am secretary general of the European federation of local and regional energy agencies and I work with energy agencies all across Europe. Like most of the engineers in the energy agencies, we would have been very much fabric first and in favour of proper specification for the fabric but now there is that debate that if we really need to reduce our carbon emissions, maybe in some cases we can do a less stringent fabric retrofit and focus on carbon reduction through the heat pump.

Having said that, in the majority of the one-stop shops and, certainly, from the Electric Ireland Superhomes approach, we have very much a design-led approach where we go room by room in terms of the upgrades required in the heating distribution system, and based on the fabric upgrade, the airtightness and ventilation. The other witnesses mentioned that it is important that the homes are comfortable, safe and healthy and those are considerations that we need to be aware of.

Much research has been done on so-called "retrofit passports" where we look at measures over a longer period of time rather than an immediate fix. As Deputy Bruton said of the example the Deputy was speaking about in his constituency, we may go in and do attic insulation, some wall insulation and some heating controls but we are not doing significant upgrades to the heating distribution system or the heating system itself. What is really important in designing those retrofit passports or that staged retrofit is that we avoid locking-in carbon at that stage and we make sure that we design that retrofit so that in another 12 months, when we want to come back in to upgrade the heating systems or install heat pumps that we have not implemented a measure that restricts that.

On balance, however, given the urgency in terms of addressing the emission reductions we have to achieve, certainly, my personal view would be that we go in, do a proper assessment, do the design and try to get that retrofit completed once. For the homeowners, they end up in a more comfortable building much more quickly. We have a lot of experience of being able to do those retrofits very efficiently.

In terms of the capacity, Deputy Bruton correctly pointed out that a significant challenge at present is that we also have the ambition in terms of new builds. The data from the Construction Industry Federation and anecdotally on the ground from a design and engineer and architect perspective, and the quantity surveyor, QS, perspective, and the people on the ground are that it is very competitive to attract and retain staff. The additional complication is that the retrofit agenda is now paramount across Europe and there is mobility of workers, who would have traditionally perhaps come to Ireland to work in the construction sector and who now are attracted to work in any of the other EU member states. There is a capacity issue on the ground. We lost expertise in terms of people who left the country or maybe changed careers during the downturn. We need to bring that expertise back. In saying that, the SME constructive companies are now very engaged in the retrofit agenda because of the multi-annual funding that is in place.

That is critical. The big challenge of engaging them in the retrofit market was that they did not know if there was work next year. Now, through the one-stop shops, they should have a pipeline of work which helps them to retain their workers and have 12 months of work rather than a six months' stop-start agenda. Hopefully, that is useful.