Brian Leddin (Limerick City, Green Party)
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It is a difficult challenge for the regulator, but it has to be done. Perhaps the committee might consider inviting the regulator to appear before us again. It is the bones of a year since we spoke to Mr. Cussen during our sessions on transport-oriented development and so on.

I will ask some questions. I received a note a few minutes ago that the Minister of State with responsibility for heritage is watching this session. If the witnesses feel that there is something very important that needs to be said, they should say it now. He is very interested. He says that he is a former student of Mr. Hoyne's. We must be in good hands if a Minister of State with responsibility in this area has been guided by Mr. Hoyne.

Dr. Daly's opening statement was very interesting. What came through was a passion for our heritage building stock and an acknowledgement of the challenges in this climate crisis.

It seems to me that if we are trying to protect our heritage buildings, we have to strike a balance between protecting them and encouraging people to live in them, because living in them is protection in many ways. Having said that, no matter what we do, and the witnesses mentioned some very important initiatives around how we can reduce energy costs in heritage buildings, they are still heritage buildings and they are very difficult to work with. I wonder if they need to be treated very differently by the State. No matter what we do, these are going to be expensive buildings to own and run. Does the State need to become more creative with regard to how it supports people who own heritage buildings, both in terms of purchase to some extent and in terms of the maintenance and operation of those buildings? There are grants but the evidence is that the State has not been supporting those people enough because there are so many buildings vacant currently. I would like the witnesses to comment on that.

A related point is district heating, which was mentioned by Mr. Hoyne. I wonder about the potential for district heating for our city centre heritage stock in particular, where there might be waste heat opportunities. It is a question of how to integrate that with buildings. I come from Limerick city centre, which is both medieval in character and also Georgian and there are two separate sides to the city. The Georgian buildings in particular are very big, with huge windows and old stone walls. These are difficult to retrofit and one can only go so far before it becomes cost-prohibitive to own them because of the operational costs. There is a discussion about photovoltaic, PV, for these buildings and whether we should be more generous in the supports we give to these owners for renewable technologies that they might be able to incorporate. Not every building is going to be suitable for a PV installation on its roof and we have to be sensitive to the aesthetic at the street level. However, perhaps there are bigger opportunities for photovoltaics in those buildings.

I want to mention something that has come up a few times in the sessions and to give the witnesses an opportunity to discuss it, namely, how we account for embodied carbon. It is something that is going to happen through the recasting of the energy performance in buildings directive. We are hearing it will not be until 2030 that it is required that countries have an accounting system - an assess and report system, I believe it is called - for embodied carbon. Some countries are moving ahead quickly and it seems to me that, as Deputy Bruton said, if we want to nudge the people and the sector towards renovation and retrofitting, and away from demolition and new build, then it goes back to that point made by Dr. Engel Purcell about knowing what we are starting with. Can we do more, and quickly, with regard to developing those accounting systems? The witnesses might have UK experience in this regard. We understand from speaking with the Irish Green Building Council that the UK is further ahead than us and maybe there is learning from across the water.

I want again to raise the idea of a help to renovate scheme. I do not know if it has been given consideration by the witnesses but it is something that we talk about. The State helps young people and first-time buyers to buy new homes, primarily, and this has driven a lot of new building construction, particularly on the edge of our urban areas. However, an idea that has frequently been mooted in this committee and probably in others is a help to renovate scheme. Have the witnesses given much thought to that? They said earlier they would support it but I cannot imagine it is as straightforward as it sounds. If they have any further thoughts on that, we would certainly like to hear them.