Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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I apologise for having had to step out in the middle of the meeting. I thank our guests for their presentations. I echo some of the comments of previous speakers in thanking both the NCCA and, in particular, the SEC for the work they have done, and the quality of it, over an extremely challenging two years and under extremely pressurised circumstances.

When one contributes this late to a meeting, there is always going to be an element of repetition and that especially so in this case. I raise the issue of T1 and T2 and echo the comments made earlier by Deputy Ó Laoghaire. We have discussed the matter at this committee and we have discussed it in detail at meetings of the Comhchoiste na Gaeilge, na Gaeltachta agus Phobal Labhartha na Gaeilge, of which I am also a member. The Irish-language community has spoken with one voice on the issue. We have received very good evidence and suggestions, particularly from Maynooth University, about possible alternative approaches. That needs to be looked at again. It is something that has been raised as problematic by the Irish-language community and we should come back to that point.

Ms Forster pre-empted some of my questions by talking about the issue of broader reporting. Certainly in the leaving certificate and the senior cycle as currently constituted, it is almost as if two approaches are being taken. It says, on one hand, that it is a summative assessment of learning. However, in people's imaginations and minds' eyes, it serves as a matriculation examination for entry into third level education. It would be interesting if we could begin to separate that. As Ms Forster said, we could be considering broader reporting. For example, the leaving certificate is completely blind to how good a person is at group working, which is a useful skill people will carry into their later lives. However, teachers who emphasise group working may or may not find themselves rewarded when the leaving certificate examination results arrive. It would be interesting to look at that issue.

The issue of micro-credentialling was touched upon by Mr. Slattery when we were talking about transition year. That is something the committee has talked about in the context of third level education. I think straight away of the Teastas Eorpach na Gaeilge, TEG, or the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages. It would be interesting if at the end of the senior cycle, a student emerged not just with a leaving certificate result in Irish, French, Spanish and whatever else, but also with a qualification that was recognised under the common European framework. If we are talking about pathways, once somebody is located on that common European framework, they can see a way forward. I am thinking in particular of some of the provisions in the Acht teanga whereby we are moving towards a 20% recruitment target in the public sector and how it is most likely that a language level of B2 will be the standard we arrive at in that regard. However, all of this will hinge on the externally moderated school-based assessments. There has been near consensus in terms of the need to move to a more continuous assessment-based model. That is recognised in the senior cycle review. All of those moves are welcome but we must see closer and in more detail how it is we can structure this externally moderated school-based assessment. We have heard those concerns expressed by the unions. Deputy Ó Ríordáin made the distinction between whether the leaving certificate is fair or not and whether it is transparent. There is a certain level of trust in the leaving certificate and we certainly do not want to undermine that level of trust in the public eye. That retention of trust will hinge on how we structure the externally moderated school-based assessment. That will be the crux point.

Those amount more to comments than questions but our guests may wish to respond in any case.