Mr. Richard Kennedy:

I thank the Senator for her comments. We would be proposing woody riparian strips in areas whether they would benefit the overland flow of phosphates. It is not to incentivise but to show people where is the best place to plant them. I am not proposing that is supported. The current crisis has shown that nutrients are very valuable. The best way for farmers and the food industry to react to the current situation is by standing and looking inside their own fences.

That is what we are talking about. We propose that every farm would have its own footprint, but in order to do that first one must know and understand what it is. This whole carbon economy is a very complex area. I find it complex and I have been studying and working in it for years. I believe that there are far too many assumptions made and not enough based on science and fact. I would absolutely agree with the Senator that we should not and cannot play three card tricks, and we would be found out if it was smoke and mirrors. It should not be smoke and mirrors - and some of the Senators' colleagues have been to Dowth to see - and this is not. We look at the facts and data. There are lots of ways to be there with facts and data. It is unfair to say that Accenture are doing anything other than being involved in this than for the right reasons. They are very focused on the fact that they are being requested around the world to develop and work on sustainable solutions. They came to us and said "What you doing?" We said to them "Come and have a look". That is why they are interested. It is not the case that they are going to sell carbon credits. They are looking at processes for their customers. The customers have made the request.

From an economic point of view, I am seeing quite a lot how environmental, social and governance criteria, ESG, that companies must meet are driving economic impact and financial impact. It may be a cruel parallel, but I would see this almost like the tobacco and smoking industry of the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. The evidence is there and the research is there show that we can do this without damaging the environment, or without damaging it as much as we are. Forestry and farming the only two industries that actually have the ability to naturally sequester carbon. In order to do this, and to the Senator's point, we should baseline farms to understand exactly what that are doing today: measure what they do; measure the outcomes of what they do; verify this; and then report it to a global standard so that one is not double counting. That is what we would ultimately propose and it would put Irish farming in a different place and rather than an overall it would underpin. It is like comparing a profit and loss account for a company for one year to the profit and loss account for a week or a month. I say this because the variables, the variations, and the things that change, have the potential to ensure that Ireland can be most efficient, not alone in terms of our production or in underpinning an authentic transparent food production, but also in terms of a transparent and authentic carbon footprint for the food we produce.