Mr. Karl Byrne:

From the tax perspective, Mr. Marjoram has touched on our approach, while Mr. Jones has spoken to the investment perspective. We can marry the two of them while also looking at the returns that higher education provides to society in general. We can also consider the targets being set by the Government. For example, there is a target of 750 apprentices in the public sector but we do not know where they are going. There are only 50 live apprentices now in local authorities so even if we put apprentices into the local authority sector, we do not have craft workers with whom they could buddy up. Who would deal with such matters? How will we deal with Housing for All and retrofitting? How will we deal with any of this? We must invest now because we will also see societal problems down the line. When politicians have a conversation with people at the door, they should also be saying that if we do not invest now, things will get worse. If we do not invest now, we will not be able to do what we are suggesting. We will not be able to build student accommodation or deal with such issues.

This is also about societal value. I went to school in Kilbarrack, where only around four or five people went to the National University of Ireland colleges. In 1995 I had the grant and in 1996 I paid £50 as a registration fee in University College Dublin. I was part of the Goldilocks generation and a number of the politicians here would have been part of that too. Now a €3,000 fee is required. That conversation must be had about the effect we are having. I am from a generation that benefited from free education at third level and the State provided that for me.

We must consider societal benefit, investment and tax. This is about a whole discussion. That is why we are saying this is the start of a discussion. We would welcome the opportunity to come back to the committee when a decision has been made by the Department on a future funding model. We must deal with all those aspects and not just the spending of money.

We need to have a discussion on how it is spent, what we are targeting and what we are trying to do. As I said, we would welcome that conversation at that stage.