Professor Diarmuid Hegarty:

I will make a point that Dr. Ryan cannot make, and it is about giving the Chair the answer that should be given to anybody who says these are not real universities. I had the privilege of sitting on the Higher Education and Training Awards Council, HETAC, for ten years, from its establishment in 1991 until 1999. On that council, I sat with presidents of many of what were then the institutes of technology. I saw them getting their delegated authority and developing further, and I was finally able to congratulate them on becoming universities, not when I was on HETAC, because my membership ended in 1999, but subsequently when I met them.

I also have taught accountancy to many of the people who are now lecturing in those things. I know the quality of their intellect. I remember teaching in National Institute for Higher Education, NIHE, Limerick back in the 1970s, and people would say it was not a real university. Would anybody say that of the University of Limerick now? Government should probably have thought of making the institutes of technology universities ten years ago. When they have been universities for ten years, you will not hear of this distinction. They have also proven themselves in terms of the international market with recruiting international students. Ask the international students if they are attending a real university and if they are going away with skills they need, particularly in the technological area. There are many answers to that very facile remark. I just wanted to put my answer on record.