Dr. Joseph Ryan:

On the question of investment, if we look at the agendas in Europe 2030, it is a green agenda and a sustainability agenda. We will have to move to a lifelong learning model. That is exactly the way the Government shaped the Technological Universities Act as it is now. It is a cultural change. We will move from the front-loaded education system to a much more lifelong model. We are sharing work on micro-credentials, on which the Irish Universities Association is leading. We are doing a parallel piece on recognition of higher learning, working with Mr. Miley. These are key facilitating instruments to allow for this.

To try to fuel that, we have had to go through the national recovery and resilience plan to try to get some of the wherewithal. Through the HEA, we pressed the button on that just last night. It is a very complex piece of work. I am happy to share it with the Senator so she can see the design that is going in to try to deliver on that. One of the factors that militates against this is that we have so much competitive funding now. That tends to put people's eyes on the close win rather than the longer strategic horizon, which is where we need to be thinking.