James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I wish the committee, the Minister, Deputy McEntee and her officials, our secretariat and anybody observing a good afternoon. I do not know if we received any apologies. Deputy Costello has indicated that he is juggling with another meeting and he may try to join us in between, as best he can. We have a couple of people attending virtually and we have a couple of people attending in person.

The meeting has been convened to consider the Revised Estimates for Vote 20 - Garda Síochána; Vote 21 - Prisons; Vote 22 - Courts Service; Vote 24 - Justice; Vote 41 - Policing Authority; and Vote 44 - Data Protection Commission.

I thank the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee and her officials for attending and assisting our consideration of these Revised Estimates and for the provision of information in advance.

I would propose, as per the usual procedure in these sessions, the Minister makes an opening statement, after which I will ask members to come in. We will take each Vote in order. We will take each Vote and subhead under it, take questions on those, complete that as a block and then move on to the next subhead. Therefore, we will be taking it in a thematic fashion. If the Minister or other members wish to make closing remarks, they are welcome to do so. Is that format agreed? Agreed.

In accordance with Standing Orders, members would be aware at this stage, the discussion should be confined to the Estimates only. Please do not veer onto wider matters. There will be many opportunities throughout the year to do that.

All members are aware of parliamentary privilege and parliamentary practice at this stage.

I welcome the Minister to the committee and invite her to make an opening remarks.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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It is good to be here in person. I am seeking the committee's approval for the revised Estimates for the justice Vote group, to provide for much needed expenditure across the justice sector.

The Estimates provide for gross expenditure of €3.153 billion across the six votes in the justice sector, €2.883 billion of which is current expenditure and €270 million is capital expenditure. In addition, an amount of €12.4 million in unspent capital from 2021 has been carried over to 2022, bringing the total capital allocation available to €282.4 million.

I will set out the detail in respect of each of the individual votes, but the main objective of the funding in 2022 is protecting communities and supporting victims. This is core to what we do in the Department of Justice. The budgetary allocations reflect the ongoing and increased investment in supports for people and communities impacted by crime and also the broad range of services offered to the public, including by accelerating the digitisation of these services.

The gross expenditure estimate for Vote 20 - Garda Síochána is €2.062 billion, which amounts to 65% of the funding for the entire group. This includes a capital allocation of €146.5 million, which builds on capital expenditure of €131 million in 2021. The capital expenditure includes €61 million in respect of the building programme, including the completion of the new Military Road, Dublin 8 development, €72 million for ICT expenditure and €12 million for investment in the Garda fleet, including in the region of 100 new Garda bikes.

In the region of 88% of the Garda current expenditure budget is pay and pensions related. I am pleased that the funding for 2022 provides for a further 800 gardaí to commence training and for the recruitment of an additional 400 Garda staff to free up more gardaí for front-line duties. It is intended the next competition for recruitment to An Garda Síochána will commence shortly.

The organisation's capacity will be further strengthened by the recruitment of additional Garda staff, including specialist roles to support the investigation of crime and enhance the management of An Garda Síochána. In addition, since 2017, approximately 840 Garda members have been released from posts not requiring Garda powers or expertise and their duties reassigned to Garda staff. This has, in turn, facilitated the redeployment of Garda members to operational and front-line duties. This process will continue in 2022.

The budgetary allocation for 2022 includes in the region of €10 million for further investment in the new Garda uniform, which people will have seen this week, and an additional €10.5 million for Garda operational expenditure, which includes provision for new mobile devices, equipment for a range of Garda specialist units as well as on-going training in relation to priority areas such as tackling domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. It also includes a specific once–off allocation of €1.5 million to mark the centenary of An Garda Síochána in 2022. This significant milestone in the history of An Garda Síochána will be rightly recognised and celebrated this year.

Before moving on from the Garda Vote, I want to acknowledge and thank An Garda Síochána for its exemplary service through and during the pandemic and in the many ways An Garda Síochána continues to support communities throughout the country. The work of An Garda Síochána is valued and appreciated by people throughout the country. It is important that the work of the organisation continues to be supported and that Government is committed to this, particularly in the context of ongoing reform, which is both in the best interests of the public and of An Garda Síochána as a whole and each member who serves in it.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I do not want to interrupt the Minister's flow, but we might open up to comments under each head. We will take discussion under each head and the Minister can open each head with her remarks. Would that work? It will then be fresh in members' minds when we are considering matters,if that would work for the Minister as well as the members.

I thank the Minister for the overview of the Garda Síochána Vote. I will open to the committee in terms of Vote 20 - Garda Síochána. Does any member wish to come in with comments or questions?

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for attending. I want to ask her a couple of things about Garda numbers and recruitment and so on. Can she give a little more detail on her opening remarks, particularly around the next stages of the Garda campaign and when it is likely to open?

The redeployment of Garda members to operational front-line duties is a significant change that has been happening over a number of years. Can the Minister detail more on that? Can she break down the staff numbers?

The Minister mentioned it, but I ask her to elaborate. Did she use the phrase "staff complement"?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Is the reference to Garda staff strength?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Could I have the figures for Garda recruitment?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The intention this year is to have 800 new recruits. We have allocated additional funding. More than €2 billion is being allocated directly to An Garda Síochána. Consequent to that, 800 new recruits will come out of Templemore. The campaign should open in the next two to three weeks. There will be a significant campaign to try to open up recruitment to as many communities as possible in order to ensure that the force is representative. We also want to ensure that as many gardaí as possible who are currently working behind desks are freed up. Through the funding, there is a commitment to have 400 additional civilian staff. The commitment will ensure that 400 extra gardaí, in addition to the 800 recruits, can be deployed in our towns and villages. One hundred and twenty recruits came out of Templemore in the past two weeks. This is increasing our number, bringing it closer to the total of 15,000. We are also committing to focusing on and expanding our Garda Reserve, which over the years has unfortunately been depleted. However, the Estimates contain a clear commitment, amounting to €1.5 million, to increase the number and to have Reserve members as part of the overall team.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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My next question is somewhat linked. On the provision of office facilities for Garda staff, co-location in Garda stations is not always required. Even in my area, there is an opportunity to develop an office building for Garda staff. Is that part of the programme for capital expenditure? There are pressures on some Garda stations because of their size.

On Templemore, recruitment is to begin shortly. Is there provision for additional training to deal with domestic, gender-based and sexual violence, or is it already a well-entrenched part of the programme? Is more funding required to enhance the training?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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On the latter question, members of the divisional protective service units received specific training initially. Some of it has been online. Owing to the relaxation of restrictions, there will be further training in person, working on very specific, sensitive and difficult issues. The training is extremely important because the staff working in the units are dealing with very difficult issues.

Training of gardaí overall continued throughout the pandemic, albeit in a hybrid format. It will continue. Very much part of my objective in supporting victims in their journey is ensuring training in this area for members of the Garda, those in the legal profession, the Judiciary and others who come into contact with victims or survivors. There is ongoing training. It is a question of more specialist training for those working in the divisional protective units, but it is important that everybody have training at a certain level, especially regarding this issue.

Capital expenditure is set at €270 million but we are considering a new capital budget that will project into the next five to ten years. We need to determine how needs and requirements fit into the new operational model being rolled out as part of the restructuring and the move from the district model to the new divisional model. The new model will include a focus on community policing and severe crime, but also on HR, finance and ensuring those who have specialist training in certain areas are doing the work they need to do. Of course, all these staff will need to be housed and to have the space in which to do their work. The capital plan will be announcing shortly will set out just how we will do that.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister envisage a greater concentration of professional administrative functions? Will there be more distinct separation?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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We do envisage that. An example of that is the divisional protective service units, whereby units within each of the 19 divisions will have a particular focus and capacity in the areas in which they are working. That will apply across the board. Economic crime and fraud divisions, and also other divisions, will be included. As the divisional models are rolled out, we will also see a particular focus on community policing. It is not all about buildings and structures; it is also about ensuring we have equipment and support for An Garda, an up-to-date fleet, bicycles for gardaí in towns and villages and the right IT and other technologies. As I mentioned, there is €72 million for overall IT expenditure. This is extremely important in making sure the Garda is up to date and can match so much of what is being done by its counterparts across Europe to share intelligence. It is about fighting local crime but also about making sure we can deal with international criminals and gangs and co-operate with our partners across Europe and internationally.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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From a cyber security perspective?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Absolutely.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I am going to proceed to the next questioner. If Deputy Carroll MacNeill wants to contribute at the end, she may do so. I am allowing about five minutes per questioner for the first subhead. There are a few subheads to get through.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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No problem.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Members may contribute for a second time if they have additional questions. I call Deputy Martin Kenny.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for her opening remarks. I have a couple of minor points. On the youth justice strategy and the youth diversion programmes in place in many areas, will there be additional training for rank-and-file gardaí to ensure they are adequately trained to deal with the kinds of incidents involving juveniles that we have been seeing more of recently?

Body cams are supposed to be coming on board. I hope it will be soon. When does the Minister expect them to be used and to be able to ensure adequate protection for the public in this regard?

With regard to the capital building programme, for which there has been an increase, many Garda stations around the country are in dire need of renovation. New Garda stations are required in some places. Sligo is probably the main example but there are others. Are there plans to build on progress to ensure a good capital resource that is fit for purpose, because many existing Garda stations are not fit for purpose?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The funding for the youth justice strategy has doubled. In recent months, we published the overall strategy. Training that will take place will be paid for directly through the Garda Vote. There will be training as part of the overall strategy.

On automatic number-plate recognition, ANPR, and the body-worn cameras, the Deputy will be aware that legislation is being worked on. It is on the priority list for this session and I hope to have it published in the coming month or two. Work will obviously need to be done on setting codes of conduct once the legislation is passed. Much of what we are working through at present is to make sure individuals' civil liberties and rights will be protected at all times, such that the body-worn cameras will be used only when necessary. In light of so much of what we have focused on in recent weeks and months, including domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, the position on the use of body-worn cameras is clear. The first few moments after a member of An Garda Síochána appears on the scene are often the most important. There will be very clear rules and guidelines on how the body-worn cameras will have to be used and on other elements that fall under the legislation. We intend to make sure the ICT budget for An Garda Síochána will contribute towards delivery in this regard. While I do not envisage that the legislation and all the codes of conduct will be fully completed this year, the intention, moving into next year, is to see deployment and what I describe happening on the ground.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for that. My other question is on public transport, which has been a focal point in the past several months. The trade unions whose members drive trains and buses are very exercised over the dangers faced by the public and employees. They feel there needs to be a section of An Garda Síochána to deal with public transport. I agree and believe it is a direction in which we need to go. As the Minister is aware, we are pushing everybody to use more public transport and stop using their cars. I hope that is what will happen and that we will have the required infrastructure in place as we move forward, but we will have to ensure people can use public transport safely. Many people, particularly young women, are afraid of their lives to go near DART stations and other such places after dark. They will take a taxi and do anything other than do so. The main reason is security. While some public transport operators use private security firms, which do a certain job, we need to consider using Garda resources and forming an appropriate corps to deal with the matter.

I would like to hear the Minister's comments on where that might go.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I hope the Deputy will appreciate that it is a matter for the Garda Commissioner. I am aware he keeps all these issues under consideration, such as where certain issues arise; where there needs to be a greater focus; where there needs to be a greater redeployment; or, indeed, where there needs to be a new operational model within the structure of An Garda Síochána. I know in recent times, due to the issues the Deputy has just mentioned where we have had particular issues, unfortunately, many of them within the Dublin area as well as further afield, there have been specific targeted operations within An Garda Síochána at certain times over weekends. That has had a huge impact and has been very positive. Notwithstanding that, it is something that will always be kept under review and, obviously, if a situation escalates that needs further consideration, that will be the case. As is always the case in the context of the budget, I would sit down with the Garda Commissioner and the team, and where there are priorities, not just from the Garda Commissioner but our own priorities within Government, we will align. An issue like this or any other issues will always be under consideration.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Costello is next. His microphone is on mute.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I do not lip-read so well I am afraid.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is welcome to come in to the committee room. I will move on to the next questioner and we will, perhaps, come back to Deputy Costello. Deputies Pa Daly and Pringle are also on the call. Would either of the Deputies like to come in at this time? No. We will move on to the next head. Before we leave the Garda Vote - I know it is not strictly relevant although there may be a small class of an impact - I welcome the medals for gardaí, which the Minister announced recently, for the centenary of the force. The force epitomised community-policing values throughout Covid and served us with distinction. It is great to see recognition of that and all they have done in the past century. The Minister can take us through the next vote.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Vote 24 - Justice, has a gross Estimate provision of €498.7 million, plus an additional €5.122 million in unspent capital brought forward from 2021 under the capital carryover provisions. The budget is broken down into two separate programmes, the criminal and civil justice pillars, comprising almost 50 separate subheads. The budgetary provision for 2022 enables a number of key priorities to be advanced and provides additional resources to a number of agencies and programmes in the civil and criminal justice sectors.

I am particularly pleased that it is possible to build on the investment in Estimates 2021 for victim supports and to tackle domestic, sexual and gender-based violence in all its forms. This reflects the fact that tackling these crimes and supporting victims is a priority for this Government. Over the past 12 months, we have made good progress in tackling and raising awareness of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. An integral part of this has been in working closely with our front-line partners and taking a sectoral approach to the issues, and we want to continue this.

In 2022, we will provide over €1 million to the Legal Aid Board to provide for legal advice and services in court to victims of sexual violence. Over €1 million will be provided to the Garda to upgrade its divisional protective service units. Some €5.3 million will be provided for awareness-raising initiatives, including knowing the signs, what supports are available etc. In addition, €4.9 million is being provided to support victims of crime groups. A significant proportion of this is earmarked for the domestic, sexual and gender-based violence area. The €5.3 million also deals with training, which I touched on earlier with Deputy Carroll MacNeill.

The Youth Justice Strategy 2021-2027 was launched in 2021. The immediate priority within the new strategy is to enhance engagement with children and young people who are most at risk of involvement in criminal activity, principally by strengthening the services available through the existing network of 105 youth diversion projects, YDPs, across the State. The additional €6.7 million provided for in the Estimates represents an increase of one third in support for youth services. Apologies, I said "doubled" earlier. It provides the resources to kick-start delivery of key objectives in the youth justice strategy and, in particular, the programme to expand and deepen the range of supports available through local YDP services.

The budget of Forensic Science Ireland, FSI, is over €56.5 million in 2022. This includes a capital allocation of €30.5 million to complete the development of a new state-of-the-art laboratory in Backweston, County Kildare. Despite the impact of the Covid restrictions, in the region of over €69 million was spent on this project over the past two years. A number of other agencies in the criminal justice sector received additional funding. The Criminal Assets Bureau received €900,000 with its total allocation being €10.9 million. The Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission received an additional €2.1 million, which brings the total allocation to €13.4 million. This reflects the increased workload in terms of volume and complexity which the commission is dealing with. Increased resources have also been made available to the Inspector of Prisons of €400,000, bringing the total allocation to €2.35 million, and the Parole Board now has a total allocation of €1.74 million, which reflects the expanded remit of this body following its establishment as a statutory agency in July 2021.

I am particularly pleased that the community safety innovation fund has been established in the justice Vote in 2022. An amount of €2 million has been provided in 2022. A call for funding proposals will issue seeking applications for community safety projects and similar initiatives from the new local community safety partnerships. Applications will be assessed against criteria outlined in the call for proposals to ensure funding is allocated to encourage the development of innovative ways in which to improve community safety, from people who understand local community safety-needs best and to avoid duplication with other services. The new fund will reflect the significant successes of An Garda Síochána and the Criminal Assets Bureau in disrupting criminal activity and seizing proceeds of crime, by providing additional funding for investment in community safety projects.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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We will now take questions and comments on Vote 24 - Justice. I call Deputy Pa Daly to mix things up.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I have one question about the extra money provided to the Legal Aid Board for providing legal advice and services to victims of sexual violence. There are a lot of cases coming before the courts in which there is a background of domestic violence involving, for example, breaches of protection orders and barring orders. In my experience, many of those cases are dropped before they are to be heard or on the day of the hearing. What extra plans does the Legal Aid Board have? Does it have any ambition to help the complainants in those cases who have protection orders and barring orders, and to give them legal advice and support? Sometimes cases are dropped because there is an improvement in the relationship, but it is difficult for them, mostly women, to leave the relationship. Could they get help and advice from the Legal Aid Board? Will that be considered by the board to address the problem?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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"Yes" is the simple answer. The €1.1 million comes directly from Supporting the Victim's Journey and the recommendations in the Tom O'Malley report, which was published almost two years ago this summer. It is intended that victims who previously did not have access to or were not able to afford legal support going through the court process, would have access to that from the beginning when they decide to take that difficult step of coming forward and seeking help. It is the intention that they would have access to legal advice and would be able to make the decision whether or not to process, move forward, or go to An Garda Síochána. The intention is that, in years to come, that money will expand even further. This is initial funding as we get this particular action up and running. It is intended to support victims at every stage of the way.

It complements other work that has also been done where we have expanded and improved the victims' charter, making sure that when people go online to see what supports are available to them, there is a clear and understandable website with the directions signposted for them as to where they can go. Of course, legal advice would be one option available to them. There are many others as well. It is important to note that this is not just about going through the courts process. Not everybody decides to do that. However, we must ensure they are still supported and have that legal protection.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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So, it is not just limited to cases where there is a charge of assault or sexual assault.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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No. Absolutely not.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Costello has made it to the room.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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Apologies. I was in the children's committee going through a similar grilling with the Minister there. I had some questions on the earlier Vote, but I will engage with the Minister directly on them. On the Inspector of Prisons, it is good to see an increased budget.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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That is a separate Vote.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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Are we not discussing Vote 24?

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, we are discussing justice and Vote 24.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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Yes, the Inspector of Prisons is included under Vote 24.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Yes, it includes the Inspector of Prisons.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I assumed the Inspector of Prisons would come under prisons, which is Vote 21, but perhaps I am incorrect.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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It comes under Vote 24.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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We learn something new every day.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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I am aware the current Inspector of Prisons will be stepping down. I would like to get an idea of the timeline for the appointment of a new Inspector of Prisons so that we do not have an interregnum during which there may be a lack of transparency. Is that information available? The role of the Inspector of Prisons will expand when we ratify the Optional Protocol to the UN Convention against Torture, OPCAT, which will extend inspections to other places of detention. Will the inspector take on that role? Does the Minister have a timeline for ratifying OPCAT?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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To answer the Deputy's first question, we are currently going through a process. As he outlined, the current Inspector of Prisons will finish her work shortly. We are going through that process and hope to have a person recommended in the coming months or potentially weeks, and sooner rather than later. The increased funding is to acknowledge the significant work that is carried out by the Inspector of Prisons and to acknowledge the workload which is still increasing and will increase further, based on the OPCAT legislation the Deputy mentioned.

We have a framework for the Inspector of Prisons being developed. Launched in September 2020, it sets out how we conduct inspections of prisons in Ireland. It is informed by statutory underpinning of the legislation. We have national legislation relating to prisoners and prisoners' rights as well. All of this comes under the remit of the inspector. It also draws upon the relevant International human rights standards, in particular the preventative approach and standards set out by OPCAT and the Convention against Torture and other Cruel, Inhumane or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

In the next year or two, all places of detention will be included in the remit for the inspector, not just prisons but perhaps also Garda stations where people are detained. A number of things are happening in regard to upgrading our legislation, ratifying certain European protocols and ensuring that when this change takes place, the Office of the Inspector of Prisons will have the capacity to take on this additional workload on top of its already difficult workload. For this reason, the office's budget has been increased by €750,000, bringing it up to €1.954 million overall.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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In regard to domestic, sexual and gender based violence, as Deputy Daly said, we anticipate an increase in enforcement so it is important that funding is available to support that. Significant work is being done on the new strategy and the link with how services have been covered with Tusla. On a related point in respect of the youth justice strategy and the Garda youth diversion office, one of the big problems over the years has been follow-up with Tusla where a decision is taken not to prosecute a child but to refer him or her for therapy, counselling or Tusla-based welfare follow-ups. Historically, the monitoring of the follow-up has been weak. I am flagging more than anything else because I know so much has been invested in the youth justice strategy. We need to make sure those Tusla follow-ups are monitored in some way to ensure they take place. There is not much point in choosing not to prosecute a child because he or she needs a welfare-based intervention if nobody checks how the decision is followed up.

Similarly with the prisons, as Deputy Costello mentioned, there has not been a report of the Inspector of Prisons report for some time for various reasons, which is a pity. I could be wrong but it could be four or five years at this point. The visiting committees have not been working well recently. When the suite of legislation is being considered, will there be some capacity to mandate a timeliness, or regularity, as to when that report is done? This would enhance transparency.

The community safety innovation fund is a fantastic initiative. When will it open? I was really only flagging the other issues while we have the opportunity to do so.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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What is really important with the next domestic, sexual and gender based violence strategy is that have we a joined-up, coherent response to many of the issues mentioned. This will involve Tusla working with Departments of Justice and Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth but also that, where there are issues that need to be resolved, we have a structure in place to enable Departments to come together to resolve them. Often when there are many Departments and agencies are involved, things fall down.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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This is it. While it is not at the level of the Minister, to take the example of the efficiency of the service level agreements, if they are not being resolved until November of the calendar year, by whatever agency is involved, that makes delivery very difficult. Similarly, multi-annual funding as opposed to year-on-year funding is among the important structural changes on the ground that impact enormously on the ability for managers to concentrate on doing the job.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The community safety innovation fund is on my desk and I hope to finalise the terms of reference for the fund in the next few days. This is extremely important for many reasons. I hope that each individual community will have an opportunity to identify what its priorities are, what innovative ways it can apply to protect the community and respond to the issues in the locality. The fund will be open to community groups and organisations. I urge people to look at what already exists, how that is working and how they could potentially identify something new. This is about new innovative ways, not about filling a gap where funding does not exist elsewhere. It is not about providing current spending where perhaps there has been a drop in support. It is about new innovative ways individuals can identify for how they can help keep the community safe. Of course, individual groups can also look at the issues of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, safe spaces and working closely with local councils here.

We have three community safety partnership pilots and a group in Drogheda, which came together following Vivian Guerin's report. In future, each individual community safety partnership will include representatives of An Garda Síochána, education, local authorities, Tusla and community services. I hope they will be able to apply to this fund, for which €2 million has been provided this year. Over the years, I hope this will increase significantly and there will be further funding for groups to apply for.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I hope not as that would mean more crime, in one sense.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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There is good and bad there.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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It is one of those oxymorons we have to deal with. I note the increase in funding for the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, GSOC. One of the biggest difficulties many people have with GSOC is that the inquiries it carries out often require that it second members of An Garda Síochána from other areas to do investigations. There is certainly an impression among people who make complaints. We are all adults and we know that people who do not get a satisfactory outcome to their complaint are not going to be satisfied. However, some people have a grievance that they believe to be legitimate feel they are not dealt with appropriately. Part of that is the way in which these inquiries are carried out. I hope GSOC will have its own staff to do this kind of work, that these staff will be properly trained and that GSOC will have a greater level of independence and separation from An Garda Síochána than is currently the case. I invite the Minister to comment on that.

The other issue I will raise relates to the Mental Health Criminal Law Review Board. Many people who work in the criminal justice system, whether in the courts or in An Garda Síochána, see that many of the repeat offenders who come before the courts have difficulties with addiction and mental health. Many of these difficulties are interlinked, for example, people may have become psychotic because of drug addiction. There is a range of issues there. At the moment, the services available to such people are poor. It is widely recognised that while some improvements have occurred in recent years, we are still a long way from a satisfactory situation in regard to that. The zero increase in funding for the review board, which I accept only considers cases, reflects the huge amount of work to be done to bring this area up to the standard needed to protect people with mental health problems who end up before the courts and often in jail where they should not be.

There is a huge amount of work to be done in respect of bringing that up to the standard that we need to protect people who have mental health problems, end up before the courts system and often end up in jail, where they should not be at all. It compounds their condition and destroys their lives, in effect, in many cases. It is a real issue that we need to look at.

The other issue I wish to raise concerns the crime prevention measures. There is zero increase in respect of that. I point to the case that is ongoing at the moment in my own constituency in Sligo. It concerns an elderly man who was attacked in his home recently and is currently on life support. The gardaí are doing their best to find the culprits. However, it has certainly heightened that sense of fear and vulnerability among elderly people, particularly those living alone in rural and isolated areas. While it may not be under the remit of the Minister's Department, I suggest that from somewhere in government, additional measures need to be put in place in respect of providing security, greater protection and perhaps cameras and that type of thing. Assistance should be provided for pensioners who are alone in rural areas to help them to get a greater sense of security around that. That is not to separate the issue from the fact that we need more gardaí and, of course, a more visible Garda presence in rural areas. That is certainly a direction that we need to go in. I will leave it at that for the moment, but I will come back with other questions afterwards.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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On GSOC, acknowledging the workload and the need to continuously expand and support the work that it does, the budget has increased by around 19% from last year. That is quite a significant increase. I believe the budget has increased by €2.133 million, bringing it to €13.406 million. GSOC is obviously independent in its function and its work. What we will be moving to do in the new Policing, Security and Community Safety Bill, which is obviously quite a significant Bill looking at all areas of reform across An Garda Síochána, is to strengthen the role of GSOC as an ombudsman. Obviously, there will be particular discussion happening in the months ahead on that reform and how we can make sure that GSOC, remaining independent, has the supports, the structures and the legislative support that it needs to continue to do its job to the best of its ability.

On the mental health element, it was a programme for Government commitment to establish a task force to look at mental health in our prisons. I suppose it is about looking at what is often a revolving door situation, where people come in and out. When they leave, they do not have the appropriate supports and they are in contact with the Probation Service. We must look at what can we do. I and the Minister for Health, along with the Ministers of State, Deputies Butler and Feighan, have come together with our Departments. There is a group that is being chaired by Kathleen Lynch, the former Minister of State with special responsibility for primary care, mental health and disability. For the past year, the group has been looking at all elements of this right down to the type of support that is provided in prisons. We know that there are many people who are not appropriately housed. They should be in Dundrum or perhaps other facilities, but there is not the scope or the space for them. We must also ensure that the appropriate supports are there for those who do need to be in prison and that they are supported when they come out into the community. In terms of the spend and the requirement from that, we will have recommendations in the coming months from the task force. Some of that will fall under my own remit, most likely in the areas of probation and the prison service, but a lot of it will also fall under the remit of the Department of Health. That is why there are three Ministers in the Department who are very much involved in that.

In terms of crime prevention, this morning I spoke of what happened in the last few days. It is unthinkable than a man living on his own in his home, who had every right to feel and to be safe, was attacked viciously. We need to take a number of actions here. We need to make sure that our Garda numbers continue to increase. As I outlined at the outset, that is happening. There will be an additional 800 gardaí this year, 100 of whom are just coming out of Templemore. We must ensure that those who are working behind desks but should be out on the ground are allowed to do just that. That is why there will be an increase in civilian staff also. We must ensure that there are focused and targeted operations in our towns, villages and rural areas. Operation Thor, which has been under way for some time now, is specifically focusing on supporting and protecting rural communities. We also need to focus on the new development of the community safety partnerships, which will allow individual communities to identify what it is that they need and want to help keep themselves safe. The issue of cameras has obviously been very much discussed in recent weeks. In that regard, there is work that needed to be done, because of new GDPR legislation that came into force in 2018, to ensure that the councils working with An Garda Síochána and community groups can apply the law in the correct way. We must ensure that where surveillance is required or where community groups seek to have cameras put up in their locality, they are in line with national and European legislation, and that they support the Garda to do the work that it needs to do, while also protecting people's rights and their right to their own privacy. There are a number of issues to consider here. The incident to which the Deputy referred should not have happened. It should not be tolerated. I might ask anyone who has information, no matter how small they might feel it is, to come forward. It is an ongoing investigation, and supporting the Garda in that regard is hugely important.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for her presentation today. I have a few questions. On the €1 million that has been provided for the Garda to upgrade its divisional protective services units, will the Minister expand on that for us? I listened very attentively this morning to the Minister's interview on "Morning Ireland" regarding last night's documentary on RTÉ. I am conscious of the fact that my own constituency is one of the areas that does not have a refuge for women. I was delighted to hear the Minister say that she intends to almost quadruple the number of beds that are available for women and families who find themselves in that situation. Is that part of the €4.9 million in extra funding that is being provided? I also listened very attentively to the Minister saying that she will be leading on a response to domestic violence. The issue crosses so manyDepartments. It is an issue that was very clearly presented here by Safe Ireland and Mary McDermott when she spoke about the fact that there are so many different Government Departments that feed into the issue, including the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, the Department of Social Protection, the Department of Justice and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. I ask the Minister to provide us with details on how the work is coming together. Are we finally going to have one Department that will be responsible for addressing the issue in an adequate way, so that organisations such as Safe Ireland have one Department that they can go to, or are we still going to be in a situation where three or four different Departments deal with the issue? On the Tusla report that we are still waiting on, does the Minister have any idea when that will be coming to Cabinet? When will the full audit of where the gaps are be completed?

My last question concerns the community safety innovation fund. It is very welcome. I am wondering if that will support local community crime prevention groups. I am thinking, in particular, of the local crime prevention community groups that feed into our joint policing committees and local authorities. They do not actually have any funds, so they have to look further afield. For example, in respect of the property marking scheme and the provision of signage for it, unless the Garda and the local authority have that support, they do not have any source of funds. Perhaps the Minister could expand on that as well.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The €1 million in funding is an acknowledgement of the fact that while some of the divisional protective service units have been up and running for a number of years, there are many that were only established in the last year. It is provided to ensure that those who are working in the units have adequate provisions and the resources that they need. Some will require additional building capacity and space. That is something that we can address as part of the wider capital plan. The €1 million funding is simply to make sure that those who are working in a very difficult area – because this is not just about looking at domestic and sexual violence, but historic and current sexual abuse cases, online child sex abuse and all of these different areas – have the relevant technology, equipment, resources and support that they need. Touching on Deputy Kenny's point, unfortunately, we will probably need more funding to build on that in the years to come. The €1 million funding is very much an acknowledgement that we need to start.

On the €5.4 million, the funding that is currently in my Department for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence totals around €13 million. None of that is for refuge or delivery of services. All of that funding comes under Tusla. Last year, €30 million was spent on the delivery of services to accommodate around 140 spaces. We will need a multiple of that. In the coming weeks, the responsibility for the delivery of service and refuge space will move to the Department of Justice. We will set out very clearly what that structure will look like and how we intend to deliver those services. The accommodation review will be brought to Cabinet next week. As part of the process, I will meet with front-line workers and the community and voluntary sector to go through the accommodation review with the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, because it is still very much part of his Department with Tusla. The intention is that in the short and medium term and as part of the launch of the third national strategy, that will bring together all the different strands.

The accommodation piece and refuge is just one element of tackling domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, albeit a huge part of it overall.

In terms of the community safety fund, as I mentioned at the outset, what it is not intended to do is to substitute funding for groups that are there on a day-to-day or yearly basis. It is intended for community groups to identify new and innovative projects that are perhaps once-off, but which are distinct and separate from activities or organisations that are already functioning or operating. It will not fill a gap where funding is not provided. Again, I would ask people to still apply. Every application will be taken on its merit and the criteria will be set out very clearly in the coming weeks.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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It is a fact that the midlands and nine counties do not have a refuge.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I am very mindful of the fact that Ms Mary McDermott said that it is really important that we do not just plant refuges here, there and everywhere so we can say that every county has one rather we must have specialist led units with wrap-around services headed up by groups such as the Tearmann in Monaghan, which has a remit for the counties of Cavan an Monaghan. I suggest that we link in with local authorities to see what other types of safe environments and accommodation can be provided for women other than refuges, and that we find something that is appropriate for different areas and needs.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Yes. With the publication of the accommodation review next week, what we will make clear is that while nine counties do not have refuge spaces at all, that is not necessarily where the immediate need is and there may be a crossover. We need to look at where there is a lack of capacity, and at where there are already refuges spaces but a significant need for further and additional ones.

What we do not want to do, and what I do not want to do, in responding to a short-term demand, is to identify possible accommodation that is not suitable, that does not have the wrap-around supports and services that are needed, and that will not fit into a longer-term model, which is really what we need to do here. We need to plan longer term.

On the structure that currently exists, which we are very much working on it at the moment, it is a bottom-up approach. Organisations have to come forward. They have to be designated as an approved housing body. They have to apply through the capital assistance scheme, CAS, which is the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. They have to go through a very difficult and lengthy process. If one does not have an organisation that comes forward then there will be no refuge. We need to look at that and amend the model. We also need to possibly look at a number of ways in which a refuge, accommodation units or spaces can be provided. That may include the Government or our agencies intervening as well.

There are various different elements of work under way at the moment to identify all of those gaps and needs. I will outline them in the coming weeks and months.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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We have an identical problem in Dún Laoghaire. It is a large constituency but it has no refuge service. We have gone through the process exactly as described by the Minister. The difficulty we have reached is to find suitable accommodation that is available. As Deputy Smyth said, it is a subtle and nuanced task because not all accommodation is suitable. One needs accommodation that is safe and geographically subtle because people are at risk. In addition, any accommodation needs to be imbedded in the community in a subtle way. One can have multiple sites that are gently integrated into a community as opposed to something too obvious. The process is very difficult and it is certainly something that we would strongly welcome in Dún Laoghaire, as part of the accommodation review.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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One of my questions has been asked. The State is considering becoming involved and that has not been ruled out. Am I correct in thinking that?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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No, it has not been ruled out. We need to have a number of options available because at the moment we have one. While there are a number of excellent people working between Tusla and the organisations, it is not happening and not working fast enough so we have to look at all options.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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To follow on from what Deputy Kenny said about the ombudsman, and what the Minister said, I did notice a case recently where a nurse in the hospital in Kerry was dissatisfied with the nature of a Garda complaint. She appealed to the ombudsman and she was not happy with the response. Since then, the Garda has reopened an investigation. Perhaps there is a difficulty with independence. Are there plans to recruit more investigators from overseas? I ask because it is unsatisfactory for an inspector or a superintendent from a neighbouring district to conduct an investigation. Whether an investigation is done properly, there is the perception sometimes that it is not fully independent. Are there plans to recruit investigators from abroad?

Finally, I see that the budget for the Office of the Inspector of Prisons is increasing but there still is no complaints system in place. Are there plans to introduce a complaints system from within the prisons?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I will come back to the Deputy with the timeline and I am conscious that I did not answer a previous question on reports. There are reports that were signed off in the last few days. The delay has been due to the fact that the inspector has not been able to get into the prisons and inspect in the way that she would have previously. There are reports that will be published in the coming weeks.

In terms of the ombudsman, while I cannot comment on an individual case the office of the ombudsman is 100% independent in role and function, and in the work that it does. It goes without saying that the work it does will require engagement with members of An Garda Síochána because of its very nature. What we want to ensure, through the new legislation, is that we can strengthen, support and provide additional resources, where necessary, to the new ombudsman. I am not sure whether the name will change. Obviously, the focus is to make sure that the office continues with its independent nature, and that it is resourced and supported as much as possible. Again, that would probably require expansion and additional individuals to work within the commission. As always, we will go through the normal process and it will be an open process where anybody can apply, whether they are from this country or elsewhere.

Can I come back to the Deputy on the other question on the timeline for a complaints mechanism?

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, I referred to the Office of the Inspector of Prisons.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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The funding for the Gambling Regulatory Authority of Ireland has been increased from €200,000 to €700,000, which is welcome. Gambling is one of the problem hidden addictions in this country, and I suppose that applies to most of the western world. In addition, much of it has now moved online. In regard to the ability to hold the big corporate companies, which run much of this stuff online, to account and bring adequate enforcement to the gaming scene, the budget seems quite small. Will the Minister indicate the plans for all of that?

I refer to subhead B10. I see that funding for the Coroner Service has increased. As I am sure that the Minister will acknowledge, there have been problems with the availability of a coroner service for a considerable length of time. There is no coroner in some counties and there is a coroner's office in some counties that functions in a very ad hocmanner. Outside of Dublin, the coroner service is almost a non-professional type of organisation so I think there needs to be a refocus on reforming the entire process. I am sure most people would agree that there are problems, even those who works in the service. While the increase in resources is welcome, it is still a long way from where it would need to be to bring the kind of reform that is required.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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On the gambling piece, this is a work of progress in progress at the moment. My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, is working on bringing forward legislation, which he hopes to have enacted by the end of the year.

To show our intent in this regard, there was initial seed funding of €200,000 allocated and then a further €500,000 for this year. The increase shows the intent but obviously the legislation must come before that. I know a huge amount of work and focus, within the legislation, acknowledges the online element of gambling and how it has changed form in recent years. Obviously, that is something the regulator will deal with directly. While the funding this year may seem small, it is seed funding and intent funding to show what the overall objective is, and what will be more likely next year and the year after.

Regarding the Coroner Service, the Deputy will appreciate that the coroners are independent in their functions, conduct and how they carry out their work. As a result of Covid-19, many services have been seriously curtailed. I appreciate that it has impacted on many cases and decisions and has had a severe impact on families and the timelines in which they expect to have the results. We have had what are referred to as documentary inquests or remote inquests, in the same way that, across the justice sector, everybody has tried to digitalise and work remotely to be able to respond to the evolving situation with Covid-19. I think, bar a small number of cases, the vast majority of families have agreed to progress in this way.

Regarding the situation in the Dublin coronial district, we have a second coroner and two new deputy coroners were appointed in February 2022. Further, we have the Civil and Criminal Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, which specifically looked at the assignment and appointment of temporary coroners to act simultaneously with other coroners in exceptional circumstances. This was to try to deal with the capacity. We are continuously trying to update, review and amend, but taking into account that coroners are independent in their role and function, we have to try to support them. The last two years have been particularly difficult for them in carrying out their work.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Before we leave that sub-head, I have a question. Subhead A15 is Legal Aid (Criminal) and subhead A16 is Legal Aid - Custody Issues. The question also covers forensic science to some extent and subhead A23, commissions and special inquiries. In the Supplementary Estimates last year, we increased the amount available to the Department for legal aid. There was a significant fall, particularly in subhead A16, if my figures are correct, of 38.46%. It is a significant underspend in that area. The same could be said for the criminal legal aid criminal too. Does the Minister want to comment on that? Is there a specific reason for that?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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There was a 9% fall in Legal Aid (Criminal) because this is a demand-led subhead where we have seen a reduction. It is always difficult to predict the final outturn for the year. It depends on the volume of legal aid certificates that are issued and the length and complexities of cases, especially in the Circuit Court and higher courts. In 2020, the expenditure was in the region of €62 million. The original allocation for 2021 was €69 million, which was increased through a technical Supplementary Estimate process to €77 million. The actual expenditure for last year was €72.7 million. This is demand-led so it is hard to predict how that will change. The legal aid custody issue, as the Chair outlined, is a more significant drop of 38%. The original Estimate for 2021 was €3 million, which increased, through a further Supplementary Estimate process, by €3.5 million, to €6.5 million. Actual expenditure was around €6 million, including arrears of approximately €1.5 million, which will not occur again. It is demand-led and included once-off payments.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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On the legal aid point, is the Minister familiar with a campaign by legal practitioners who have made representations to members of this committee about unwinding the FEMPI cuts that were experienced a decade or more ago? It may be one of the few professions which has still not received that restoration. Does the Minister want to comment on that? Is she aware of those issues and the support for those petitions?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I am aware. I meet regularly with legal representatives about quite a number of issues regarding to legal aid. What I committed to last year and what we are working towards now is a review of civil legal aid in particular, acknowledging that there are challenges within the structure as it currently exists. That is obviously separate from the funding for those who carry out the functions. There are a number of things that we need to deal with. I am aware of it and am engaging with the sector about it. We have legislation on criminal legal aid. We need to make sure that if we review civil legal aid that we have the particulars to be able to support and work with the people who will be able to access the legal aid.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister. The committee has the wider issue of legal aid on its work programme as it is of interest to the committee. The Minister might keep us posted about that. It is good to hear that it is being considered.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Vote 21 - Prisons has a gross estimate in 2022 of €401.3 million, plus an additional €3.601 million in unspent capital brought forward from 2021 under the capital carryover provisions. I am pleased that an additional €2.4 million has been made available to increase investment in medical, mental health, psychology and other services to a vulnerable group in our prison system following a number of reviews including the health needs assessment and the Commission for the Prevention of Torture review. This is in line with the Government's commitment to reduce the rate of reoffending and to improve community safety. Additional funding of €4 million has also been provided across a range of other areas to in respect of ICT, cybercrime and other operational costs including payroll.

While the redevelopment of Limerick Prison has been impacted by the Covid restrictions in 2020 and 2021, significant progress has been made. The capital allocation in 2022 will enable the completion of this project, which will provide additional capacity for 40 female prisoners as well as a new wing to Limerick male prison, which will have additional capacity for 90 male prisoners. It will completely upgrade and modernise Limerick Prison, as well as eliminating the practice of slopping out.

I acknowledge also the impact that Covid-19 has had on the operations of the Prison Service and the collective efforts that have been made by the Irish Prison Service staff, management, prisoners and Red Cross volunteers to contain and minimise the impact of the virus. The infection prevention and control teams that are in place in all prisons have made a significant contribution to the handling of the virus, which is particularly challenging in the closed environment of a prison. I commend the work that has been done and recognise the difficulties the virus, including the most recent Omicron strain, has caused for staff, prisoners and their families.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I too acknowledge the extraordinary work of the Prison Service in protecting everybody, particularly from the more virulent or dangerous strains of Covid-19 at an early stage. Clearly, the Omicron variant got us all in one way or another. The Prison Service did exceptional work in an enclosed environment. I want to question the remaining Covid restrictions, insofar as they are in place. I understand that family visits have started again recently, which is positive and welcome. Is there now full access for legal representatives for consultations? It is an ongoing question. Will the Minister come back on that point? Deputy Bacik and I co-chair the Oireachtas penal reform group and it is a question that continues to come up. Family visits are so important. Will the Minister clarify the position on legal visits? Will she discuss the timing of the completion of work at Limerick Prison, please?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Regarding the visits and the legal representation, in most instances, there is a hybrid model, where there is still availability for prisoners to speak to or engage with their legal representatives or family members via video link or Zoom. Family visits have returned, but not to full capacity in every prison, because, as people may be aware, outbreaks are still happening within our prisons, and it is important that the Prison Service is able to manage those. The intention is to get back to full capacity as soon as possible, acknowledging that, for some, the use of a hybrid model or video links is also satisfactory. That feeds into the work An Garda Síochána and the Courts Service are doing, working with the Prison Service on the modernisation programme. It is not necessarily always the case that a prisoner needs to travel, whether to a court or to a Garda station, to carry out the judicial process. We need to take some of the positive elements of the changes that have happened and apply them. That is beneficial not just for the prisoners, but also for resources, funding, timing, and managing a more effective system between the courts, gardaí and the Prison Service.

It is extremely important that family are allowed to visit. Where possible, that has been resumed, but it has to take on board the fact that outbreaks are still happening.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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That is understandable. Family visits are so important, for obvious reasons, but so is the taking of legal instructions.

It is understandable in the context of the broader modernisation programme that it is not necessary for people to attend every court appearance. That may particularly be the case on the criminal side of things. On the family law side of things, though, cases involving many prisoners are heard in the District Court in Dolphin House, such as childcare proceedings, for example. It could be important for those involved to be able to be present to articulate their cases. I ask that the Department follow up in this regard and ensure that this aspect is resumed as quickly as possible. There is as much need to give and take legal instruction in those family cases as there is in criminal justice cases. It is not possible to replicate the process over Zoom in perpetuity. It is not possible to give advice or take instructions in the same way through that medium. Family visits are the priority, but, equally, I urge that, where possible, visits where legal advice can be given and taken be resumed as quickly as possible as well.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Regarding Limerick Prison, despite the impact of Covid-19, significant progress has been made. The estimated date for completion is quarter 2 of this year, and we expect to open the accommodation later in the year. Hopefully, that will happen by quarter 4. It will be a welcome and positive development for all the reasons I have outlined.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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That will be a major bonus for the prison structure generally. It is a great achievement to have it completed after all this time. It has been a long time coming.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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It is. On several occasions when I have been here, questions have been posed concerning the practice of slopping out. That is a process and procedure that we want to eliminate completely and this development will play a huge role in bringing that about.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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The Oireachtas penal reform group will look forward to visiting the newly redeveloped prison. Deputy Bacik and I have written to the new director general to ensure that the members of the committee can visit the prisons. I am sure there will be no difficulty in that regard from the perspective of the Minister or Department in enabling that to happen as soon as is possible, once Covid-19 allows. I thank the Minister.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Moving on to the Courts Service Vote, I ask the Minister to lead us through it.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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A total estimate in gross terms of almost €164 million is being provided for the Courts Service in Vote 22. This is in addition to €3.648 million of unspent capital being carried over from 2021. The allocation of a further €1 million for the new courts modernisation programme builds on €8 million already provided in the Estimates in 2021 and retained in 2022. The ongoing courts modernisation programme is focused on designing court services around the user, leveraging digital technology to streamline services and processes and, ultimately, delivering a courts system which is more accessible to all.

I am committed to driving the modernisation and digital first agenda across the entire justice sector. I particularly welcome the commitment set out by the Courts Service to maximise the use of digital technologies to provide an improved and user-centred service. Throughout the pandemic, the Judiciary and the Courts Service have worked closely together and innovated through the use of technology to maintain the highest level of court activity possible, with a particular focus on families, victims of domestic abuse and people who are most vulnerable at this time. I expect that the progress made on new ways of working will be maintained in future.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I call Deputy Costello, who is indicating.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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An important aspect of the modernisation programme that must be taken on board is access to translators. Representatives of different groups have appeared before our committee, and before the Joint Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, and have spoken about the difficulty with access to justice because of a lack of translation services. These services can be ad hoc. My experience in using translators is that sometimes they can be excellent, while at other times they can be deeply unprofessional. There is no overarching mechanism to regulate this area. This point is a bit outside the content of the Estimates, but any courts modernisation programme must ensure and improve access to translators. Is there anything in these Estimates that we can use to increase and improve access to translation services?

When it comes to the courts, as well, I am conscious of the number of judges we have and ultimately, the lack of judges. The European average of judges per capitais about 20 judges per 100,000 of the population. In Ireland, the equivalent figure is 3.3 judges per 100,000 people. I was talking to one barrister who practises in criminal law who had a bail hearing in January this year and the trial is scheduled for March 2024. There is a huge backlog. The impact of Covid-19 is contributing to this but so is a lack of judges. This is the case at all levels of the judicial system. The President of the High Court asked for an additional 17 judges and we were able to give her five more. Equally, the District Court and the Circuit Court have as much of a demand for the allocation of more judges. The addition of judges with no fixed circuit or district would mean they could move around and go to where the backlogs are to help us to be more flexible. I am aware that I cannot fully appreciate if that is possible under the current structures, but something like that is desperately needed to ensure that someone will not be waiting for two and a half years for a trial. That type of situation impacts on the accused and on the victim. I thank the Minister.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Regarding the allocation for the modernisation programme, that has been set out through the Courts Service. I will have to respond later to the Deputy on whether those funds cover the costs for translators. In the last year, however, we have allocated €9 million specifically for the courts modernisation programme, and I would be surprised if translation did not form part of that overall allocation or if the requisite funding could not be found within that allocation. I accept the Deputy's point that a lack of access to a translator means that it is not possible for someone to realise their right to have a fair trial and due process. I will follow this up with the Courts Service.

Regarding judges, we were able to allocate six new High Court judges following the request that was made. I appreciate, however, that is not enough in the context of the overall structure and system. A group chaired by Brigid McManus is looking at the overall number of judges and how many might ultimately be required. The group is also examining new types of structures and court structures which will have specialised judges. My Department and I are also working towards a new family courts Bill, which will identify new courts' structures specifically for family law cases. We wish to have specific judges who will only be working on family law issues and who are trained in this area.

Therefore, we must do several things. We must increase the number of judges and increase specialisation among judges. Equally, we must maintain the changes which have occurred in respect of modernisation. We have moved on from the days when many people would go into a courtroom on a particular date not knowing whether they would be heard that day, and perhaps then having to return to same courtroom only for the same thing to happen several times. We must build on the changes that have happened and on the positive approaches that have been taken in the context of the modernisation programme. I should have an initial report on the number of judges by Easter. I would assume that I will be bringing recommendations based on that report to Cabinet once I have spoken to my colleagues in other Departments.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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The Department of Finance in particular.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I echo Deputy Costello's call, and I am glad that the Minister is acting on this issue. Our per capita number of judges is low compared with the rest of Europe and other countries that use common law. That is certainly a concern. It is a theme that has emerged in multiple hearings of this committee in the last 18 months. The lack of judges has arisen as an issue even in unexpected areas. The number of judges across the system is impacting a wide variety of justice issues. It is a matter that has attracted recurring comment in this committee, so I am glad to hear that it is being positively addressed in the Department under the direction of the Minister. I call Deputy Daly.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Regarding the public private partnership, PPP, costs, the Estimate provides for an annual payment for €38 million in 2022. I think the payment for the Criminal Courts of Justice, CCJ, takes up about €27 million of that total, but I could be corrected on that figure. Does the Minister think this spending is still good value for money? It seems to be the model that is entrenched in the Department for the construction of any future court buildings.

I turn now to Tralee Courthouse. In that context, I welcome and look forward to the proposed family law changes. I also welcome the amendments and changes that have facilitated the smooth running of the courts during this pandemic, such as the remote hearings, which have helped victims and witnesses. Even prisoners do not have to travel for relatively mundane remands. The situation on the ground in Kerry, however, is that the forthcoming Circuit Court criminal trials, which commence for five weeks at the end of this month, are still going to be held in Limerick. It means that members of the Garda, witnesses, family members, and defendants must all travel out of the county. That is inconvenient for the people involved and for criminal justice.

It is not good for business around the town because business from juries and everyone else involved in the courts is leaving the county.

Could the Minister give a commitment that criminal trials will be returned to Tralee as soon as possible? I did put a proposal to the head of the Courts Service prior to Christmas, which was to go before the buildings committee in December, to say there is another building available across the road, the old Kerry Protestant Hall, which could be used for family law. Has that alternative been considered yet by the Courts Service in order that we could refurbish the existing court building? That would free up the Island of Geese site for other positive additional benefits to the town centre, following on from the Government commitment to invest in town centres.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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On the PPP, this applies not just to the courts' capital programme but also to An Garda Síochána as well. What I have seen in the past is that PPP projects tend to start and be delivered within the timeframe that is set out. It is important that we are commencing such significant projects, Hammond Lane being one example, and that we know there is a start, middle and end and that when the projects finish they will come in on time and, most importantly, on budget.

In terms of the criminal trials, we met with the Courts Service in the past week, and we were assured that they would resume. It is important that there is a phased return where there is still a level of uncertainty and people who are vulnerable, in particular when juries are being sworn in, as we have seen with work in various Departments the length and breadth of the country. The intention is that criminal trials will resume in their original courthouses as soon as possible. It is being done on a phased basis for the very reasons I have outlined, namely, that there are still people who are vulnerable and there is still Covid. We must take all of that into account.

As the Deputy will be aware, there has been a lot of engagement locally in respect of Tralee courthouse between the council, the OPW and my Department. A decision was taken through the council that the Island of Geese site was identified as the most appropriate. My understanding is that there are still discussions happening between the council and the OPW on what might potentially happen with the current building and what is required to do that. The intention is for the work to progress as quickly as possible in these instances, particularly as it has been going on for some time.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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That is fine as long as the Minister is happy with the delivery of service by the PPPs. Does she think it is good value for money to spend €38 million per year? My understanding is that the Criminal Courts of Justice cost €27 million per year for 25 years when it was constructed in the late noughties, which is a total amount of nearly half a billion euro. I do not think that is good value for money. There are various views about how effective the building is.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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It is hard for me to comment on individual cases without knowing the detail of the overall costs and the starting costs. PPPs are only progressed if they provide value for money. To go back to my original point, in the vast majority of cases, they have been delivered on time and within budget. New PPP projects will only be approved if they are going to provide value for money and if they can be delivered. I apologise that I cannot comment specifically on individual cases. I am not clear on what the initial costs were and what, potentially, the current costs may be.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I wish to ask the Minister for an update on the family court complex. Based on current projections, construction is due to commence in 2023. Is that correct?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Yes, work is due to commence in 2023. This is part of a PPP bundle that includes Macroom and Clonmel Garda stations. Significant work has already taken place and the intention is that building will start next year. It is a significant investment. What we have seen, especially in Dublin, when it comes to the family courts in Dolphin House and other places, is that there has been a lack of investment in recent years and the delivery of the new facility will be very welcome for the many people who need the services.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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It is something that has come up again and again in committee hearings and it will be very welcome.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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There are two items remaining, namely, Vote 41 and Vote 44. I propose to take them together because they are both important but relatively small in terms of subheads. There are only two items in each Vote so we might take them together. They refer to the Policing Authority and the Data Protection Commission. We will take questions on both.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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In Vote 41, a gross Estimate of €3.9 million has been provided for the Policing Authority Vote. A gross estimate of €23.3 million is being made available to the Data Protection Commission, which is Vote 44. This allocation includes an increase of €4.1 million or 21.5% compared with the previous year. The Data Protection Commission budget has increased significantly in recent years, as the responsibilities and functions of the office have expanded also, as the lead supervisory authority to the various multinational organisations which have their European headquarters within the State. The largest aspect of the budget relates to staffing costs of almost €16 million, with legal expenses accounting for approximately another €2 million of the budget.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I have a question on the Data Protection Commission. The Minister will be aware that this committee produced a report on the commission. We had people like Mr. Schrems attending the committee. The Minister will also be aware of the ongoing debate and concerns as to the effectiveness and capacity of the Irish Data Protection Office to manage effectively all of Europe's data sets. By extension, there is a potential threat to our economic offering, which is grounded in having tech centres and multinational tech companies in Ireland because it is the gateway to Europe in those jurisdictions. If there was to be any slippage in terms of those operations looking elsewhere, including for data protection regimes, as is beginning to happen in certain quarters in Europe, that could jeopardise our economic offering. It is a specific concern for a number of reasons. I am sure the Minister is familiar with the committee's report on this from last year. I welcome the increased funding of 25%. That is positive. Perhaps the Minister would like to make a brief comment on that at the outset.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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In the context of funding, the fact that we have seen a 21% increase shows the commitment we have in developing and evolving the office overall. It is seeing a significant increase in staff and there is an ongoing competition as well in that area to recruit additional staff. In the past six months, my Department has said we will look at the potential of increasing the number of commissioners from one to three. That does not require legislation, as the legislation has already been approved and passed in that regard. I will be making a decision on that very shortly.

Separately, while I do not comment on individual cases or the work of the commissioner, I met recently with the Commissioner responsible for this brief and remit at a European level, Didier Reynders. He was very clear that the work the commission and the team are carrying out is very much in line with the rules, regulations and legislation that was set out at a European level.

My role is to ensure that the commission is resourced and funded to the best of its ability. I hope the increase in funding and the expansion of the staff working within the commission's office, and the possible expansion of the commissioners is a clear indication of that support.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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That is very good. I thank the Minister.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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I wish to echo the comments of the Chair. This is a very important issue. As has been said, we are the lead supervising authority, but to be honest, our European friends have been very open and clear in their criticism of the Data Protection Commissioner here, so much so that they are trying to find ways around the role of Ireland's Data Protection Commissioner as the lead supervisory authority. They are trying to side-step us because we are seen as a block to effective administration of the general data protection regulation.

I very much welcome the commitment to review the number of commissioners. I was about to refer to the commitment to more commissioners, but I know that decision has not been made yet, so I must choose my words carefully. That was a recommendation of this committee, and it is very important.

One of the other recommendations of the committee was a review of the policies and procedures within the Data Protection Commission. I appreciate it is an independent office and it is not within the Minister's ability to demand anything, but I hope if any review or consultancy is required to be paid for in terms of policies or procedures that the Minister would commit to funding it if need be.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Minister wish to comment? She can just agree with the Deputy's comments if she wishes.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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There is not much to comment on.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I note what Deputy Costello said.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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I thank the Minister. It is a very important area.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for his contribution, which has been noted. I believe Deputy Kenny wanted to come in.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I echo some of what Deputy Costello and, indeed, the Chairman said in respect of this. It is an important area. Because we headquarter so many of the big corporate centres of data and have a lot of data storage in the country, it is obviously something we must take very seriously.

Even in the engagements we had when we were preparing the report, we recognised there were issues that needed to be dealt with and required attention. Many people cannot understand how the Data Protection Commissioner is so active in talking to communities that have cameras up to prevent crime and yet does not seem to be as active in other areas in which people would be much more satisfied if she took a greater role, in particular when we look at cybercrime and some of the very violent and sexual online content that is available for children and so forth.

There is a huge area about which we have to be very serious about and put the resources in to ensure we can lead in it. Our credibility as a centre of tech will depend on how we can regulate that centre of tech. We need to be conscious of that. While the increase is certainly welcome, it is a reflection of the direction in which it needs to go. We need to accelerate that and ensure we live up to the standards we set ourselves by being a centre of tech in this country. We have invited so many companies here. We have so much data passing through Ireland from all of Europe. We cannot just simply ignore our responsibilities in respect of all that.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Minister wish to respond?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Again, I very much see my role in supporting the commissioner and her team and ensuring they have the resources to carry out the work they do. The conversation I had recently with the commissioner around this very clearly shows that the commission is operating within the data protection legislation, that is, the Data Protection Act, which was passed in 2018. Obviously, that is what we would expect from an independent Data Protection Commission.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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If the Minister does not mind, this is a little bit off the Estimate but it is related to it. I refer to the CCTV community scheme that was available for community groups throughout the country. This was in the previous Dáil term before the Minister's time in the Department of Justice. There was an issue around the protection of data. The Minister's Department was rolling out the funds for this through our justice and policing committees, JPCs, to local community groups. There was a reluctance between the local authorities and the Garda in terms of who would actually be the data holders. At the time, the direction from the Department of Justice was that responsibility rested with the local authority. Has that ever been resolved? Is that scheme still being rolled out from the Minister's Department?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The scheme was rolled out prior to the new data protection legislation that was introduced in 2018. It had been working off Garda legislation from 2015 and, obviously, the changes meant that much of the work that was being carried out was incompatible and issues had arisen.

The legislation that will be and is currently being progressed, which also includes the body-worn cameras, will address this particular concern. In parallel with that is a programme for Government commitment that we will engage with our county councils and communities to make sure that, when this legislation has passed and the changes that are needed are made, it is very clear how communities, local councils and members of An Garda Síochána can work together to make sure, if there is a decision to implement a new community CCTV scheme, it is very clearly set out who is responsible for what. That work is ongoing. The legislation is due to be published in this term and we will progress it throughout the year. I hope to have it enacted by the end of the year.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Is the scheme currently paused in terms of the Department not giving funding for that at the moment?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I will have to come back to the Deputy on that. That was once-off funding under the former Minister for Justice and Equality, Frances Fitzgerald. Significant funding had been allocated at the time. Since the difficulties and challenges have arisen, however, it is my understanding that this funding is not being provided currently.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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That is not to say we will not do so in the future when this issue is resolved.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister and members. That concludes Vote 41, Vote 44 and all the Votes under these Estimates for this consideration. I thank everybody for their contributions and discussions. In accordance with Standing Order 101, a message will be sent to the Clerk of the Dáil to communicate that our consideration of the Estimates has concluded.

I again thank the Minister and her officials for not only attending today but for sending us briefing notes and material in advance. As always, I thank all the members for their contributions and insights.