Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State. I share his objective in that I am hopeful that the committee can complete pre-legislative scrutiny of this important legislation today and that we can get the legislation onto the floor of both Houses of the Oireachtas early in the New Year.

I have a number of questions in regard to heads 3 and 8. As outlined by the Minister of State in his opening comments, both of these heads deal with deduction of State supports by insurers. For the benefit of people listening to this debate, it might be beneficial if I gave an overview of how this operates in an insurance context. The Minister of State will be aware that very many businesses have what is known as "business interruption cover". They pay a premium to insurance companies to ensure that if their business is interrupted in accordance with one of the provisions of the policy they will be covered for the losses they have sustained. This has become particularly relevant in the past 19 months because of the Covid-19 pandemic, as a result of which very many businesses have been closed and there have been consequential claims on business interruption policies. There are disputes as to whether or not a business interruption policy arises and that is not something I am going to ask the Minister of State about.

However, let us take a standard example. Where a business closes as a result of an interruption to its business, in respect of which its insurance policy covers it up to a figure of €100,000, then if it is the case that that business has lost profits of up to €100,000 the insurance company should, under that policy, cover the business for that €100,000. However, the State may have provided generous supports to that business through the employment wage subsidy scheme, EWSS, or the Covid restrictions support scheme, CRSS, to the value of €25,000. In that context, the insurance company is saying that the business's loss is €75,000 and not €100,000. I would state that the loss is €100,000 and the fact the State has paid the business €25,000 should not bail out the insurance company. That is the background to it.

I note that in head 3, it is proposed that data in respect of any such deductions that are taken into account by insurance companies will be made available to the Central Bank.

Under head 8, the Minister of State says it will be a requirement for the insurance company to inform the business of how much the State reduction has been relied upon by the insurer.

I agree with both of those and commend the Minister of State. Why do we not go one further, as we do in respect of recovery of benefits and assistance in the Department of Social Protection and personal injuries claims? Why is the State not trying to ensure that moneys the State pays to the business cannot be taken into account by insurance companies? The insurance companies should pay the full amount and the €25,000, in my example, should be paid back to the State by the business. I apologise for the elongated question but it is an important point and people may wonder why we are not going that extra step.