Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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Apologies have been received from Deputy Sherlock. Deputy Devlin has advised that he will be delayed, as has the Chairman, Deputy Stanley. I welcome everyone to the meeting. Due to the current situation regarding Covid-19, only the clerk, support staff and I are in the committee room. Members of the committee are attending remotely from within the precincts of Leinster House. This is due to the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the place where the Parliament has chosen to sit. The Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, is a permanent witness to the committee.

This morning, we will be engaging with officials from the Department of Social Protection to examine the 2020 appropriation account for Vote 37 - Social Protection, and the Social Insurance Fund. From the Comptroller and Auditor General's 2020 report on the accounts of the public services, we will be examining chapter 9, on the regularity of social welfare payments; chapter 10, on the management of social welfare appeals; and chapter 11, regarding controls over the Covid-19 pandemic unemployment payment, PUP.

Following last week’s engagement with the Office of the Revenue Commissioners, we also requested an update on the implementation of recommendations contained in chapter 20 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report on the accounts of the public services from 2017, which concerned PRSI contributions, as well as an update on the implementation of a recommendation of the last Committee of Public Accounts arising from its examination of that chapter. I thank the Secretary General for providing that information at short notice, as well as the information provided in relation to a parliamentary question tabled by me concerning expenditure by the Department in recent years on lighting and heating.

We are joined by the following officials from the Department of Social Protection: Mr. John McKeon, Secretary General; Mr. Ciarán Lawler, assistant secretary for finance; Mr. John Conlon, assistant secretary for control; Ms Joan Gordon, chief appeals officer; and Ms Philomena McShane, chief accountant. We are also joined remotely by Ms Jasmina Behan, principal officer, and Ms Ivana McGarr, assistant principal in the social protection Vote section of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. They are all very welcome.

I ask members and witnesses to mute themselves when not contributing so we do not pick up any background noise or feedback. I remind all those in attendance to ensure their mobile phones are on silent mode or switched off.

Before we begin, I will explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege, and the practice of the Houses as regards references witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected, pursuant to both the Constitution and statute, by absolute privilege. However, one of today’s witnesses is giving evidence remotely from a place outside of the parliamentary precincts, and as such may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a witness physically present does. The witness has been advised that they may think it appropriate to take legal advice on this matter.

Witnesses should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity, by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise, or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. To assist the Broadcasting Unit and the Debates Office, I ask members to direct their questions to a specific witness. If the question has not been directed to a specific witness, I ask each witness to state their name the first time they contribute.

I now call on the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, to make his opening statement.