Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Tuesday, 7 December 2021

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth

Experiences of Migrant Communities Engaging with the Healthcare System and State Bodies: Discussion (Resumed)

Mr. Noel Neenan:

The Deputy has raised very important questions, because he has touched on a number of key points. Co-operation is key because it means there is an open and dynamic conversation about the issues, blocks, gaps and positives arising as well. We are a core member of the migrant consultative forum in the Department of Social Protection, where a number of agencies, including citizens information, are represented to discuss issues around the area of social protection.

As an organisation, we provide training on the rights and entitlements of migrants for access to housing, homelessness services and social protection. We have provided training to a large number of agencies and indeed some State actors have attended that training. We have also provided that training to the regions of the citizens information service, to try to ensure that issues arising nationally are addressed and that we can bring them to the State agencies on a coherent and clear basis. Significant co-operation and co-ordination goes on to try to achieve efficiency.

With regard to attitudes and awareness in the State agencies, it is very important people act in good faith but also that officials be supported with the right knowledge, tools, infrastructure, information and protocols. That is why we are very keen for those officials to have clear pathways and protocols of understanding of migrant rights and entitlements and information from the likes of the Department of Justice through protocols. We are working with both the Department of Social Protection and the Department of Justice around that issue, because numerous complications arise.

On the one hand, we would see a decision from the Social Welfare Appeals Office saying the Department of Social Protection has no role in deciding on the right to reside of an individual that it makes an application and merely recognises it or not. On the other hand, we might see another appeals office decision saying that the officer does need to see the contents of a permission letter for a non-EEA person and asks how someone has a right to reside for the purpose of social protection. Of course, the Deputy may know, there is no such thing as a right to reside for the purposes of a social welfare payment; there is just a right to reside. These are the kinds of complications that arise where supports are needed.

Communicating those complexities and interacting with people is why interpreter services are critical. It is very difficult for the local authority and its officials because there is no infrastructure of supported communication. We have a team of interpreters who have engaged in training. We thank them, because many are volunteers, for their investment. However, we also train our own staff in how to work with an interpreter, identify the need and how to do those things properly in order that people are empowered to make informed decisions and are able to engage in the process correctly.

There is a lack of very important information and skills around interpreters and the provision of services in an accessible way. A simple example is the back to school allowance application has been digital for a number of years, unless one specifically rings the Department and asks for a form. However, one has to be able to do that and to make the application digitally in the language of the website and have a MyGovID account. These issues need to be addressed.

The Deputy asked whether this was an east coast issue. It is not. There are people in direct provision centres, members of the Roma community and many people working in industries throughout the country. It is a national issue and needs a national response. We find that knocks on to housing, so it is important that access to homeless and housing supports is supported through a proper infrastructure of knowledge, expertise and resources, of which people can avail.

It is unfortunate to think we have seen some cases in which people have had to flee their home because of racist intimidation in a local authority home. It is unfortunate that can happen. It is about community engagement and the State supporting people to engage and know the other and to support, through the migrant integration and the Traveller and Roma inclusion strategies, to support initiatives to bring people together.

When we look at migrant attitudes, people are here by policy and by Ireland recognising by its policy that migrants are welcome because they have a very positive contribution to make. Various studies, including by the International Organization for Migration, IOM, in 2015, with Nasc, and 2018 reports by the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, recognised that a very positive contribution is made and that is reflective of migrant attitudes. EU and non-EU citizens fulfil essential jobs in the labour market. They are huge contributors in that sense, as well as culturally. We just have to look at the quality of the cultural addition migrants have made to Irish society and therefore, they are very respectful of the law because they are deeply engaged in making their lives here. Society is a bell jar. There are always people at either end of the bell jar.

When people come, they bring some history with them that living in a different society can amend. The Deputy asked about vaccinations. The HSE is making very significant efforts, for example, in the Roma community and through local health workers and information, to help people to make informed decisions about vaccination. It is a big difficulty with language and literacy and the role of social media and what we-----