Ms Marie Donnelly:

I thank the Deputy. It is not for the council to propose policies but to review policies to see are they effective and achieving the objectives on the climate side. It is quite evident that some of the policies that need to be pursued are good for all citizens. I will take one example that is quite evident, that is, improving our housing stock. When one looks at our housing stock, consider the number of houses that have a building energy rating, BER, of less than C3. People are living in houses that are cold, draughty and damp with mildew on the walls. We still have houses in Ireland where people are using one open fire as their only source of heat in the house. In this day and age, it is almost incredible but a few of them exist. Retrofitting our housing to make our houses comfortable, warm, healthy and safe places to live and work, which is now the direction of travel, is a policy area that will benefit all in society. From the point of view of the council, we see it as the Government's role and responsibility to target the most vulnerable in that context first and to ensure they will get the benefit of a secure property and a warm house, and the removal of damp and the consequential removal of illnesses, respiratory and others, that come from it. Such a policy will not only deliver comfort but will reduce expenditure for people because they will not have to spend as much on heating their houses, going forward, if the house is energy efficient. That is an area where climate policy and just transition policy come very closely together and work hand in hand.

I will move to consider other areas of policy. Take, for example, transport. We are looking at transport from the perspective of reducing demand in the first instance because as they say in energy efficiency, the cheapest energy is the energy that is never used and that is, therefore, the optimum way to do it. That means providing the options to people to have alternative forms of transport. It can be public transport, buses or trains, as the case may be. It can be walking or cycling paths that allow everybody to use them. It is not dependent on people having a lot of money to use them. It opens the possibility to everybody in society to benefit from that. Of course, assistance will be required for some of the new technologies in the transport space, including electric vehicles and whatever else. That is, of course, part and parcel of the policy, going forward. A key issue is that we must allow everybody, regardless of income, to benefit from the demand response opportunities of readily available public transport at an affordable cost outside their doors in order that they can avail of it.

In that context, we looked at climate policies and how they will have an impact on people. Indeed, we looked at the agricultural sector, as I have mentioned already. Agriculture is not only a business. Of course, farming is a business but it is also a way of life that is intrinsic to our rural communities. When we look at the measures we can introduce in the agricultural sector and what can be done in that space, it is important that income sources in rural communities are protected and maintained. That might happen through different kinds of activities, and that is all well and good. The key message in our report, what we are emphasising, is that the income stream to farmers should be maintained and protected as we go forward. That is an illustration of how we are looking at the just transition concerns.

That is before we get to the whole area of employment and jobs. Some people will be negatively impacted by this transition. It is essential that we are honest and make it clear to people that there is a change coming down the track. It is also essential that we make available supports through training systems and entrepreneurial activity, if that is what people want. We must support alternative areas where people can work and train them for the new kinds of jobs that will be coming down the track, as part and parcel of the just transition. The 2021 climate action plan includes a plan to establish a just transition commission. It is specifically foreseen in the text of the plan that the council and the commission will interact on each other's recommendations on this issue. That is important.

I will go back to the first question about microgeneration and the buy-in, and understanding electricity. Looking at electricity as an energy vector, it is different to oil or gas in that it is time sensitive. Oil and gas flow in pipes. The demand profile for electricity is different during the day. Demand is very low at night and peaks at breakfast time, lunchtime and dinner time. There is an opportunity, going forward, not only to produce our own electricity from our own natural resources but to use smart technology to allow us to use that electricity at smart times. That is why allowing people to understand electricity and microgeneration is an important facilitator. The roll-out of smart meters, which perhaps we could accelerate, will combine with tariffs that allow people to use electricity, for example, at night. Some EU member states, for example, have free electricity at weekends or between 2 a.m. and 4 a.m., at which times people can charge their cars or run their heating, or whatever, for free. We need to avail of those smart technologies that will allow us, as consumers, to get the benefit.

The role that data centres need to play in this context is as a part of the energy flow. Denmark uses the surplus heat coming from data centres as a source of heat for the district heating systems to heat houses. It sounds like space age stuff but it is happening.