Mr. Richard Cronin:

No, there was another point I was going to get to. I had not finished the answer. There are a couple of other points. Notwithstanding all of that, the Deputy raised the point of us having an overall, global designation of some sort and then have these exception points within it. This comes down to how we manage the marine space. Do we go for 100% well-managed, where we have a good environmental status to meet, or do we only apply that in exceptions?

The way we implement the marine strategy framework directive is that everywhere, all the time, must achieve good environmental status. That is the legal commitment. Good environmental status has numerical values attached to it, known as threshold values, which are one of the components of good environmental status. These values are based on how much pollution there is, what level of fishing is allowed or how much litter is allowed on the beach, if any. These targets are then set up and they become part of our journey towards making sure everything we do contributes to the protection of biodiversity. This is overarching above and beyond the laws that protect the individual species and habitats.

No matter what activity Ireland decides to use its marine space for, those activities, when considered in aggregation with all the other activities we decide to use it for, it must be demonstrated they are meeting good environmental status. If they do not meet good environmental status, we have to have an adaptation to how we carry out our activity. We have to adjust our activity through a programme of measures.

I do not see that biodiversity is likely to be explicitly harmed. I made the point in my opening statement that it is not a binary choice between unfettered human activity or extreme protection. There is the possibility of both co-existing. A process has to be undergone and there are several legislative measures with which every activity must comply, whether the environmental impact assessment directive, the birds and habitats directives or any other directives. The national marine planning framework sets it out as a legal requirement that all activities that form part of our marine spatial plan will meet that environmental standard. If we decide to do something with a particular sector, whichever sector it is, it is not necessarily the case that we will automatically default to environmental degradation. That is what I would say in regard to the time lag and the question of whether we should have widespread protection and then have exclusions. The whole maritime space is already subject to a high environmental standard.

The question of whether biodiversity and activity can co-exist is an important issue for people to consider. It was a key issue we discussed in our wider engagement with different sectors. If we create a marine protected area that has a specific conservation objective, where, for example, there is something on the sea floor we want to protect, we need to think about what activities, such as tourism or some level of fishing, can co-exist with that conservation objective. It depends on what the scientific advice tells us about the thing we are trying to protect and the status to which we want to get it. It is about the current state and the desired state. It is not necessarily a binary choice between having no human activity or full human activity with no protection. Within that spectrum, of course, we can have marine reserves and make those choices. It is important to say that the legislation will be shaped strongly by members, which is something to consider as we bring forward the general scheme.

The Deputy also referred to management plans. In the work we have done so far, we have been very conscious of what management plans might look like in order to achieve a conservation objective, how they might be developed and who might have to implement them. We see them as being central to how we bring forward the designation of marine protected areas. These actions start on paper but it is the choices that are made after the work begins on paper that really makes a difference. When we look towards the creation of a plan, which involves the gathering of the evidence to decide where the designations go and the processes that will underpin them, whether scientific or participation processes, it will ultimately be about the management activities. Those activities can take a number of forms, including everything from interventions in a human activity to education, the marking on navigation charts and so on. There are many different aspects that can take the form of management plans. Without them, it is difficult for us to be able to demonstrate that designations are doing what they set out to do, which is to protect the marine environment.