Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentations. Apologies, I have to leave after my contributions. So the witnesses will be aware, we have had a number of presentations over the past weeks.

The committee in general feels that this is our one opportunity to do something about the leaving certificate and that if we do not do something now, we will have lost a historic opportunity. I have a sense that the education system in general perpetuates inequality and, therefore, the leaving certificate also perpetuates that inequality within the system. It prepares people to be good at doing the leaving certificate but does not necessarily prepare them for much else. People with means can buy results by stepping outside the system and facilitating their children to go to the Gaeltacht for Irish, access grinds for any other subject and so on. There is also a great disparity between what certain second level schools can offer. We saw that with Covid and the digital divide but also with DEIS second level schools. Some 85% of students make it to leaving certificate. We have a system that we feel needs to be radically overhauled but how do we do that? There are two issues. One is what the students are studying and the second is how we assess what they are studying. Is it fair to lump a load of written exams at the end of sixth year and expect that to be an adequate reflection of anybody's abilities? There is also all the commercial pressures that go in with that and the journalistic obsession with points and the ranking of schools.

I have a question for the business representatives. I am trying to be as fair as I possibly can. Is there not a hard business case for the eradication of educational inequality? Does it not make sense for representatives from ISME and IBEC and others to have radical positions on the economic viability of the State for prosperity, that is, that inequalities within the system be got rid of and that we have a fully literate 18- or 19-year-old cohort leaving school? We would not have one third of children in disadvantaged schools coming out with basic reading problems, there would not be that level of drift from 16 years onwards in disadvantaged areas, and 17.9% of our adult population would not be functionally illiterate. People would not be falling through the cracks and, therefore, leading lives in which they do not contribute as much as they possibly could to their own happiness and well-being, as well as to wider society. Is there not a hard, cold, economic case to be made for the eradication of educational inequality? Do the witnesses not think their own presentations into the future could be more balanced? They could address both the needs of business but also what is needed for wider society. I sometimes think the presentations are a bit lopsided.

For anyone else who wants to contribute, do they agree with my assessment that the leaving certificate basically makes people good at doing the leaving certificate? We need a model which, I have to be honest, will potentially involve teachers embracing the idea of self-assessment in the context of their students. That is something we got used to over the last two years as part of the Covid response to the leaving certificate and it could potentially be part of a future leaving certificate. Those are my questions. I ask the witnesses to address the business case for the eradication of educational inequality and how restrictive an assessment model this is for what students are studying.