Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 18 November 2021

Joint Oireachtas Committee On Key Issues Affecting The Traveller Community

Review of Traveller Inclusion Policy, Education and Health: Discussion

Photo of Roderic O'GormanRoderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I completely agree with the wider points the Deputy made on things not happening fast enough. We are seeing high-level changes in policy, such as recognition of Traveller ethnicity. We are seeing changes in that NTRIS is being introduced and adopted as an all-of-Government strategy, but we are not seeing enough substantive changes on sites and in people's lives throughout the country. One reason for this is that NTRIS was designed in such a way that an outcome is achieved when a policy or law is changed. If a new policy is adopted on education, then there is a tick and we are seen to be in the green, rather than having 50% more Traveller children finish secondary education. It is key that we have measurable outcomes in the new NTRIS that we are able to start relating to.

That also ties in with the issue of data on equality, which the Deputy identified as key, and the fact that we are not measuring Traveller participation in, and use of, various public services alone. The equality data will include data on people with different ethnic backgrounds as we are a much more racially mixed country now. We need to bring in that data. My Department is leading on that and working with the CSO on it. I am always conscious that when I talk about something that is about to happen we are again pushing progress back further, but I think everybody agrees these abilities to measure are crucial.

We can ask for a breakdown of the €14.5 million on the Traveller-specific accommodation from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. I do not have that specific breakdown; it comes under housing. I will touch on the Deputy's overall question about areas where we are not seeing progress. Housing is one area where there has not been progress over the past ten years. As she knows, a significant report was drafted by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. A programme board is now in place in that Department, which is looking at the report's 18 key recommendations and seeing how they will be delivered. My Department also set up a programme board to draft and implement the White Paper on direct provision. I see the use of a programme board that brings in people from outside the Department as a good technique to achieve significant change.

We all have to admit that Travellers have faced systemic racism in respect of the accommodation element. Those of us who have been on local authorities know that there was huge resistance when we tried to bring new sites into areas. It was not at council level but often from constituents.

When we voted to allow for Traveller accommodation, we encountered a significant pushback. It is important that leadership be shown by politicians in the Dáil and Seanad, civil servants in Departments, and councillors in both county and city councils. We must make it clear that our Traveller community is part of our community. It is essential that we provide appropriate accommodation for Travellers within our communities. We will follow up on the question on expenditure in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage.