Dr. Geraldine Brennan:

The Deputy asked whether we were at the races. As I highlighted, over the past three years, 2019, 2020 and 2021, the momentum of the circular economy dialogue has blown up in Ireland. There are various programmes, training and webinars as well as great excitement about this opportunity to innovate. Yes, there is the question of how to get our heads around Articles 27 and 28, how to redesign our products and how to set up the infrastructure, but there is still a great deal of energy in favour of this idea. In terms of whether we are at the races, we are at the starting line and the starter gun is about to go off, but everyone is at the race, which is the first thing that is needed before there can even be a race. I hope this has not been too cheeky a response, but we are at the start. CIRCULÉIRE is 18 months old and there was nothing before it. There were examples, but nothing that industry could engage with fundamentally.

In terms of providing assistance to industry in light of these being uncharted waters and there being unknowns, there has sometimes been a perception among CIRCULÉIRE's membership that it is too difficult and not worth it to go after grant money because people do not get the funds. They put time and effort into doing 20- or 30-page applications and they do not get the money anyway.

I guess I am mindful that industry which gets this will invest the effort to apply. The application process is not that easy for industry just to go after it. The whole process is designed, I guess, to weed out people who are not serious about this. Again, I am speaking on behalf of myself. One must invest weeks to develop a proposal to go to CIRCULÉIRE's innovation fund, the green enterprise fund and the circular economy innovation grant fund, which was a little different because it was a smaller pot of money. It was targeting not-for-profit social enterprise and microenterprise.

Again, I come from an organisation where we bring industry into these funds to try to help them to de-risk. We then give them a case to scale it up. When I speak about grants, I am not looking to do everything but to do the test, prove the case and go to the board to say it has worked in a certain context and it can be rolled out. Those grants can be set up, separate to capital expenditure, where the payment is for the first de-risking and not everything. Industry does not expect public funds to pay for everything. Industry members in our dialogue are saying they need help to get out of the gates in this race.

There is the question around citizens and communicating the necessity for this. It is very important again to acknowledge entities, which may have been discussed before, such as the Rediscovery Centre - the national centre for the circular economy - as an exemplar of engagement with civil society and education around what the circular economy means. There are local repair groups and maker labs, so there is activity. I am speaking on my own behalf rather than on behalf of industry members, but this is about how we profile activities and get people engaged with them. If they do not exist, how can we support people in creating them? Websites like repairmystuff.iehelps people who are interested in this.

Again, the circular economy was not in the mainstream press two or three years ago. It was not in The Irish Timesor the Business Postor different fashion magazines. It is now en vogueand it is trendy to have upcycled things. It is about tapping into that and creating ways to get the idea embedded more deeply. It need not be a luxury but it can instead be an opportunity.

It is tangential but there is a point relating to this conversation in general. The right to repair movement in Europe mandates that a company should effectively keep the components for goods in stock as inventory for ten years. That is huge from a policy perspective and it creates the opportunity to keep goods in use in the economy. I am mindful that, in previous meetings, the conversation indicated that Europe is driving this. Taking the legislation and embedding it into the Irish system is fundamental. It will all come in time. I apologise if I have not answered questions directly. I would be happy to elaborate further if members so wish.