Mr. John O'Connor:

On what the ask is, our focus is on this pilot programme. We are not at this point talking about legislative change or regulation. Our intention is to run this pilot programme over three phases. The six-month co-ordinated trial will start early next year and we are planning to roll out two further trials between the end of next year and 2023. The critical issue for us is to ensure there is as much private sector participation as possible. Based on our engagements, we believe many Irish companies are interested in this and examining it. If they are interested, we want to be able to provide them with the support they need, through this programme, to ensure they have the most successful trial possible but also to ensure our research is as significant as possible.

There is also significant interest in the voluntary sector and I have engaged with a number of voluntary sector employers. As Mr. Callinan mentioned, however, there is a significant barrier to many voluntary sector agencies that receive State funds through State contracts. They are almost debarred from the programme on the basis the money they receive through those contracts is, effectively, billed on an hourly rather than an output basis. If they were able to tender for contracts based on the output they provide rather than the hours, that would enable them to participate in the programme.

Finally, as Mr. Callinan mentioned, there is the question of whether we can identify, not necessarily in the first phase of the trial beginning next February but at some stage over the pilot programme, discrete targeted areas of the public service and the Civil Service to participate in this trial in order that it will be broad and will apply to all sectors. That is our ask to the political system at this point.