Ms Maree Ryan-O'Brien:

Please do wave. We do not agree with the Minister on everything but we are certainly glad he is listening. Even though I would not agree with the use of the term "natural mother", I very much appreciate the fact the Minister has taken on board the fact birth mothers had an issue with that, which is clearly an indication he is willing to listen. This is so important. As the committee will understand, it is not always a given. It makes trying to influence legislation and actually have something that delivers for everybody much easier.

That said, we are dealing with a situation where the effects of this issue have become compounded over generations. It has become an intergenerational issue with regard to adoptees and their children. Health concerns are massive with regard to how this impacts not on just adoptees ourselves but on our children with regard to health supports. We have made a very clear list of recommendations and we need to start at No. 1 and work our way through that.

The first recommendation was that we need to look at how we bring in people who were not included within the remit of the commission. There are massive acknowledged issues with regard to the commission, the way it was conducted, the way everything transpired, the report itself, the way the witnesses were treated and the way data were stored, but there are still thousands of people who are directly affected who have had no pathway to inclusion at all - nothing. How do we bridge that gap? How do we bring people on board? If we want to do that, if we want to look at it very constructively, if we want to look at how we might be able to do that, we need to sit down within that construct of a model of participation and look at issues like terminology.

I am fully aware of the issues regarding birth parents and the sensitivity around that. Adoptees and birth mothers are all victims.

We are both victims. It is like two sides of the same coin. We need to have a level of understanding. I am very optimistic about the need for engagement and understanding of everybody else's perspective in order that we can work towards something that is inclusive and look at a new terminology on it instead of rehashing what has gone before. Mr. O'Brien might be able to cover the more nuanced parts as regards legislation and what we might be able to do.