Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Cahill for introducing this Bill. It is no secret that I was a member of the previous committee, which held numerous hearings on this issue. As a party colleague of Deputy Cahill, I have been with him every step of the way in bringing this Bill to where it is today. It will be no surprise to anyone that, for obvious reasons, I will not start knocking it at this eleventh hour. That said, blind loyalty or friendship would not influence me in making what I believe was the right decision. What does influence me is the fact that I am a small farmer in a rural area that is sandwiched between three half-decent-sized urban areas in Tullamore, Mullingar and Athlone. I am right in the centre of that triangle and my vets are based in Tullamore. Since the low-hanging, but most high-yielding fruit for the corporates is the small animal business, they will probably be looking at towns. I have seen what has happened in Donegal, for example. Were that to happen in Tullamore, my cat and dog would have a service but my cow that needed a caesarean section at an ungodly hour would not. That is why I rode in with Deputy Cahill to get this Bill to its current stage. I compliment him on the amount of work he has done in bringing it this far.

They say that what is seldom is wonderful. It is not often that Deputy Carthy and I agree wholeheartedly on issues at this committee or elsewhere, but we do today. In terms of where the Deputy was coming from, I wish to ask Mr. Neary further questions because I do not know whether the answers got lost in the explanation. A certificate of suitability in respect of premises is granted by the Veterinary Council of Ireland. The Bill specifically states that a veterinary practitioner would have to get that certificate. Mr. Neary mentioned that transactions had already happened and that, unfortunately in my opinion, corporate veterinary practices were already up and running. How would they be fixed for their certificates of suitability under this legislation? This will not apply retrospectively. While we may question what services they are providing to meet our requirements, could they find themselves in limbo and their clientele be caught out if we changed the law now? I wish to tease this matter out more. I do not see it as a major issue, but it could create problems down the line. This is the stage of the game where we need to look into these matters.

My next question for Mr. Neary or Mr. Murphy does not relate directly to the Bill, but to its inception. Has there been any change in focus by the Veterinary Council of Ireland since we last met? I do not believe we met in this room, but next door. The Veterinary Council of Ireland did not seem to have an issue with this. Former Deputy Penrose, who is as shrewd a legal eagle as one would meet on any day's walk, had serious concerns about even the motivation for some of the decisions that the Veterinary Council of Ireland had been making. From Veterinary Ireland's dealings with the Veterinary Council of Ireland, has there been any change?

For the record, what the witnesses have explained to us I have also been told by others. Today, I met a group that concentrates on small animals. I can see where it was coming from, but I will solely represent my electorate. The food production side of agriculture is our largest indigenous industry. Every corporate is commercially driven, and that involves cherry-picking the low-hanging fruit, that is, the small animal. We hear stories about such corporates having side businesses in pet insurance and the commercial sale of drugs and so on. As Deputy Carthy mentioned, the veterinary medications issue is also before us. Deputy Cahill stated that departmental officials will be before us on that next week. A perfect storm is developing, though. If we allow all of our small veterinary practices to be taken over by large corporate outlets, their commercial business model will be the sale of veterinary medicines. That will wipe out not only all small rural vets and the services that farmers get, but also licensed merchants. This Bill has a major role to play in consolidating, strengthening and securing veterinary services, which are necessary for agricultural communities in rural Ireland. Small animal veterinary practices are equally needed, but one should not exist at the expense of the other.

In the interests of animal welfare they all can and will work collectively.

Will the witnesses comment on the article in The Irish Times, as mentioned by Deputy Cahill? While it may not be related to the Bill, is there anything that could be done, perhaps not in this Bill but in any other sphere, to change the situation or solve the problem that has been highlighted in the media around the lack of vets?