Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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We have convened this meeting to have a discussion with Susan Bergin, chair designate of Screen Ireland, regarding her key priorities as the newly designated chair of the organisation. Along with Ms Bergin is Désirée Finnegan, chief executive of Screen Ireland. I welcome both witnesses, who are joining us in Committee Room 3 remotely via Microsoft Teams.

The format of the meeting is such that I will invite witnesses to make an opening statement, which will be followed by questions from members of the committee. As attendees are probably aware, the committee may publish the opening statements on its website following the meeting. Before I invite Ms Bergin to deliver her opening statement, which is limited to three minutes, if possible, I will advise the witnesses in relation to parliamentary privilege. There is a little bit of housekeeping to go through, so please bear with me.

Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to any identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks and it is imperative that they comply. As our witnesses are attending remotely from outside Leinster House campus they should please note that there are some limitations to parliamentary privilege and as such, they may not benefit from the same level of immunity to legal proceedings as does a witness who is physically present.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I remind members of the constitutional requirements that they must be physically present with the confines of Leinster House in order to participate in the public meetings. I cannot permit members to attend outside that.

In addition, when physically present in the committee room for the committee's meetings, members in attendance are asked to exercise personal responsibility in protecting themselves and others from the risk of contracting Covid-19. It is strongly advised to practice good hand hygiene and that members leave at least one vacant seat between themselves and others attending. They should always maintain an appropriate level social distancing during and after the meeting. Masks, preferably of medical grade, should be worn at all times during the meeting except when speaking. I ask for members' full co-operation in that regard. Finally, members should identify themselves when contributing for the benefit of the Debates Office staff who are preparing the Official Report, and should mute their microphone when not contributing to reduce background noise and feedback. Members should please use the raise hand button on Teams if they wish to make a contribution.

Members have been circulated with the speaking slots the secretariat has very kindly prepared and can see where they come in. There is always room for manoeuvre. If people need to change around, we can do that. The first three speakers will be Deputy Munster, Senator Malcolm Byrne and Deputy Fitzpatrick. It is noted that apologies have been received from Deputy Cannon and Senator Hoey.

With all that housekeeping done and to one side, Ms Bergin and Ms Finnegan are very welcome. We are delighted to have them with us today. I will hand over to Ms Bergin.

Ms Susan Bergin:

I thank the Cathaoirleach and committee members for inviting us today. I am joined by Désirée Finnegan, CEO of Fís Éireann. I am delighted and honoured to be appointed by the committee as chair of the board of Screen Ireland. I would like to thank the committee for all the work it does, particularly during the ongoing Covid challenge.

I served two terms on the board of Fáilte Ireland. This experience has provided a strong grounding in oversight from a board perspective and an insight into the importance and value of a strong and cohesive board overseeing and supporting effective implementation of a robust agency strategy. My time on the board of Fáilte Ireland also gave me an insight into the value of film tourism, both in showcasing Ireland to the world and in terms of inward investment from large film studios.

I have extensive experience in business management from a variety of organisations and post-qualification experience as a chartered accountant with PwC. I am also a chartered tax adviser and have a recent qualification in risk management, compliance and governance. I believe the combination of my executive and non-executive experience, along with my professional qualifications, will inform my role as chair of Screen Ireland.

Screen Ireland is committed to building creative excellence in screen storytelling. My first objective is to ensure that the industry recovers and continues on the steady trajectory of growth that it was on before Covid-19 to become a strong sustainable sector of the economy, supporting Irish companies to create high quality employment.

Screen content production is one of the fastest growing industries in the world. Ireland needs to capture its share of inward international production, and, in parallel, accelerate the growth and financial stability of Irish production companies through continued Screen Ireland funding and the section 481 tax incentive.

My second objective is to continue to grow the training and skills development remit of Screen Ireland, which drives creative excellence and long-term sustainability. My third objective is to create a wider understanding of the value of the industry as an important contributor to the economic and cultural well-being of the country. My fourth objective is to increase the focus on the environmental impact of film production. Progress in this area is essential. It may be costly and time consuming but it is also a business and social imperative.

This vibrant, valuable industry needs to be more accessible to people from different backgrounds and regions in order that the full breadth of contemporary Ireland benefits and is represented. Screen Ireland will shortly be publishing its three-year strategic plan that will include the objectives I have outlined today. I am very much looking forward to contributing to an industry that creates such cultural and economic value. We are pleased to answer any questions the committee might have today.s

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Bergin very much. I am delighted that both she and Ms Finnegan could attend today. It is good to have the team effort from Screen Ireland. Of course, we recognise that fact that it is facing into a very difficult time when film producers are getting back to some level of normality. As I have no doubt but that the impact has been huge in that sector, it is great to have Ms Bergin here today to begin that conversation. I wish her the best of luck in her new role.

We will begin. Deputy Munster has the floor. The Deputy has three minutes.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome Ms Finnegan and Ms Bergin. My first question is in relation to the discussion in the Committee of Public Accounts yesterday on concerns around how funding is distributed. I am not sure if these figures are accurate, but it was mentioned that between 8% and 10% of Screen Ireland's funding had been given to a film production company managed by a board member in recent years. Can the witnesses comment on this? Are those figures accurate?

Ms Susan Bergin:

I cannot comment on the exact figures that the Deputy has there. What I can say is that the decisions are made based on creative criteria and that we are confident that the board members comply with all conflict of interest criteria as set out in the code of conduct.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Is it that Ms Bergin cannot comment or she is not aware whether those figures are correct?

Ms Susan Bergin:

I do not have those figures to hand as it is in relation to a previous board. I can say that the allocation of funds goes through very strict criteria but I cannot not give the Deputy the percentages.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Does Ms Finnegan have any further information on that?

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

On the board, it is really important to have a mix of skill sets and having industry knowledge and expertise is important and valuable. As Ms Bergin mentioned, our conflict of interest procedures are very robust and are followed at every board meeting, whether that is the papers not being received or the individual recusing himself or herself from that session when decisions are made. As Ms Bergin was saying, the creative team within the agency are making the recommendations to the board to ratify those decisions.

In terms of the exact percentage, I do not have that to hand either. We can certainly come back to the Deputy with that afterwards.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Ms Finnegan. Do either of the witnesses know how many of those currently on the board have applied and how many were successful?

Ms Susan Bergin:

We do not have that information to hand.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Perhaps Ms Bergin can furnish us with that.

Ms Susan Bergin:

We can.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Do either of the witnesses know whether board members applying and receiving funding is a regular occurrence?

Ms Susan Bergin:

It is a very small industry. As Ms Finnegan said, we welcome the input of people who have a lot of knowledge of the industry. It would be difficult to not have people involved in various productions but I do not have the percentages to hand.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I would appreciate it if Ms Bergin furnish us with those details. The reason I raise it is there is a view in some quarters that many of the same small number of screen producers succeed in getting funding year on year and many film producers feel excluded. Is Ms Bergin aware that this view is out there or does she plan to take steps to address those opinions or both?

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

Can I add something there? Because a number of the projects are judged on track record, it is so important, because it is such a significant endeavour financially and in all other ways to produce either a feature film or a television series that sometimes, there can be producers who have a very strong track record in the area. In terms of funding, and we will furnish the exact detail of this, we have a huge number of debut feature film-makers who we have supported and the funding tends to go to a very broad group of applicants.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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If Ms Finnegan could furnish us with that breakdown too, it would be greatly appreciated.

I probably have only a few seconds left. Ms Finnegan stated very often it is producers with a track record. The question then is, how is anybody ever supposed to get a good start if funding is prioritised for producers that have a track record or they are the most likely ones to get it? How is it that somebody coming in with an equally fresh idea but who does not have the track record would not be given the same opportunity, chance or support?

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

We run a number of different approaches because we are very focused in Screen Ireland on emerging talent and how we support them because we agree that we want to see as many new film-makers as possible. Particularly as the industry grows and as we are on such a trajectory of growth over the next few years, we want to make sure we are broadening access to the industry and providing opportunities of access to as many people as possible, and from as broad a background as possible.

We have a number of different so-called "streams". In terms of the very high-end productions, that is where I would be referring to track record. Where it is a very ambitious feature film project, for example, the team always wants to ensure that can be achieved and that we are protecting the investment to the highest possible degree.

We run many different programmes. For example, we run a shorts programme. We run a number of them: Focus, which is for live action; and Frameworks, which is for animation. They are designed to given people an opportunity to get some experience in short film-making.

We also run a lot of different programmes. A recent one was called POV, and that was an initiative around gender equality. We have just had some incredible results from that - a debut feature film-maker won a prize in Toronto, at really big festivals. We try to provide a broad array of different avenues for people who might be more emerging or coming in with perhaps less experience than others.

We would be happy to provide the Deputy with the fully breadth of all of the different programmes and so-called "access points" that people can have at different stages in their career paths.

We also have our skills team, who have done great work over the pandemic. They had to transition every single one of their courses to being held online. That has provided even broader access in order that you do not have to be physically present where the course might be taking place. They have also run a huge number of programmes for anyone who might be entering the industry or at a more emerging stage of his or her career.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I would greatly appreciate it if Ms Finnegan could furnish me with all of that and the responses to my questions. Is my time up, Chair?

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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It is, but I will give you a little latitude if you have another question you want to finish up with.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I wanted to ask the effects of the pandemic on the industry in terms of finances, job losses etc. How hard has the industry been hit by all of it?

Ms Susan Bergin:

The industry has been very resilient through Covid. We have been lucky in terms of getting a lot of support from the Department and the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, so that we could continue. We diverted some funding into Covid supports but we also got extra funding in terms of the business continuity fund, the production fund and the cinema support stimulus. A huge amount of kudos has to be given to the industry that it adhered to the protocols and kept production going. We have come back out in 2021 and we are looking at a record year.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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That is great news.

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

Could I add to that? The two areas that have found it more challenging are the exhibition industry, that is, the cinema operators, and the distribution companies because of the nature of either the closures or the movement of all the different film releases and having to move from maybe being a cinema release to being an on-demand release. As Ms Bergin said, we also added to the supports a cinema stimulus which was specifically designed to help those cinemas in bringing back audiences.

We are also trying to support the distribution community in the strategy in the years ahead. We have a number of different ideas around how we could strengthen that to respond to the challenge. The production activity has been outstanding and is a real testament to the industry.

Malcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Bergin and Ms Finnegan for their presentation. Ms Bergin said that the priorities for the board during her tenure as chair are capturing the share of the inward international production market, as well as training and skills. I am glad to hear that. The content creation industry is a trillion-dollar industry. In the UK it accounts for 7% to 8% of GDP and over Covid, one thing we have seen is a rapid growth in the demand for content in various forms. I read recently that the average American consumer subscribes to four different streaming services. I do not think that is quite the case here yet but we are moving in that direction. I ask Ms Bergin to paint a picture of the course of her term, looking to 2025 and beyond. Between construction and planning, we are going to have between 1 million sq. ft and 1.5 million sq. ft of studio space based here in Ireland over the next few years so there will be huge potential there. I want Ms Bergin to be ambitious. In 2025, what is the potential for Ireland in terms of what we can capture among the international content creation space, film, television, animation and other areas? On the skills side, where are those skilled staff going to come from? Who is going to drive that ambition? Will it come through Screen Ireland, or what agencies will be specifically responsible for that? What does Screen Ireland expect the Government to do? How can we assist in order to achieve that? We have a good content creation industry here. I would argue that we are perhaps not sufficiently ambitious given the opportunities but I would like to hear Ms Bergin's ambition.

Ms Susan Bergin:

We are about to launch our strategy for the next three years within the next week. Our first focus is on indigenous production and indigenous Irish firms to ensure they get their share of creative business. Inward production is really important. It brings in funds and trains our industry people but we want our people to be at the source of the creative endeavour so they can retain intellectual property, IP, and develop that skill set and capital to grow this industry so we can develop our talent as years progress. We have a number of initiatives in place to develop talent across the country. At the moment we have some constraints in terms of studio space, which, as the Senator noted, is being addressed at the moment but also we need to increase the talent and the crew base and that is something we are very much focusing on at the moment.

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

That is exactly what the priorities are. In terms of the inward production, studio space is growing in Ireland, as the Senator said. Before now, the infrastructure has been insufficient and that was outlined in 2017 in the Olsberg report. If all these studio spaces come online, it will open up an incredible possibility for a pipeline of big international productions to come to Ireland. We had a very successful trade mission to Los Angeles before the pandemic with the Tánaiste. We met with all the major studios and streamers and the feedback was really clear that Ireland is a very attractive place to film and that we have a very competitive tax incentive. There is always feedback on things we could streamline and we can look at some of our nearest competitors in terms of jurisdictions for things we could do. The biggest challenge for Screen Ireland is twofold. It is about maintaining the balance between international production and, as Ms Bergin said, the local productions generating creatively Irish-led stories, but also the depth of crews that will be required. Our skills team have been doing a huge amount of work. We recently launched two academies, a live-action academy and an animation one, to try to help build that depth of crew. In our strategy we will also be announcing some crew hubs that are being built, which will hopefully cover the whole country with a view to expanding the crew base for when these productions come in. On one production alone during the summer we had over 1,000 Irish crew. There are great opportunities there but alongside the studio expansion, we need to ensure we have the right crew levels in place as well.

Malcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I would like to follow up because I was very conscious that Ms Bergin said in her opening statement that one of her key aims was to capture the share of inward international production but in response to my question her focus was on supporting the development of a creative indigenous sector. I am not saying that the two concepts are mutually exclusive but having a focus on attracting international investment is different to supporting the development of an indigenous sector. If Screen Ireland's focus is going to be on the indigenous sector, who is going to be responsible for attracting the international production?

To come back to my other questions, are there specific aspects of Government policy that need to be addressed in order to achieve the objectives we are talking about?

Ms Susan Bergin:

It is a parallel focus. Screen Ireland has very much got a remit to drive the indigenous industry but we also see the great value in inward production and the development of the studio space is going to drive that. I do not see the two things as mutually exclusive. The inward production will contribute to the indigenous industry in terms of experience for the crew base but our remit has to be in driving indigenous creativity and intellectual property, IP.

Malcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I am just not hearing about the focus on attracting the international investment.

Ms Susan Bergin:

My apologies. The tax break we have in place at the moment, that is, the section 481 relief, is attractive to inward production. We would welcome a lifting of that cap because at the moment, some of our inward productions transfer some of the production or post-production work to other jurisdictions because we are above the cap. If the cap were lifted that would increase our attractiveness. We would also look at that in parallel with the indigenous industry.

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

To add to the question of policy areas and section 481, we have just recently established a Los Angeles office. We have relocated our inward production executive from here to Los Angeles to really help build those relationships and focus. As Ms Bergin said, we work on both aspects in parallel and work very hard to maintain the right balance between both. We feel that the growth on the international side can help us build the local Irish industry as well.

In terms of section 481 there are three areas we have been focused on. It is a very competitive incentive and the regional uplift has been a strong example of policy that we think helped attract some of those bigger productions to the regions. There are some areas around which individuals are eligible for the incentive that we are working through. Ms Bergin mentioned the expenditure ceiling. For us it is about building the entire ecosystems and when we see examples that Ms Bergin referred to of visual effects work or animation work, if the live-action portion of a large-scale project go elsewhere when it reaches that limit, it makes us less competitive at that scale.

This is particularly relevant when we want to attract large-scale franchises or tent-pole feature films. They tend to be very large-scale in their budgets and it becomes much more challenging to keep the entire project within Ireland. Deputy Munster asked earlier about the recipients of funding. That would see a broadening out of that funding going to the visual effects sector in Ireland and to animation, and hopefully would see the entire project from start to finish retained in Ireland.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Malcolm Byrne for that question. We are also joined now by Deputy Griffin. Before we go to the Deputy I have a few observations. Screen Ireland is coming to the end of its strategic plan for 2016 to 2020. While it can be more difficult to be reflective and critical, I must ask a tough question about meeting those goals and objectives. Are there areas that Screen Ireland believes were not reached? What were the strengths of that strategy? This may be a question for Ms Finnegan but I am not telling the witnesses who may answer: perhaps both of the witnesses have an opinion on that.

Ms Susan Bergin:

Given that I am relatively new, Ms Finnegan probably has more to say on that.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that.

Ms Susan Bergin:

One of the things we can say is that the industry has grown hugely in the past ten-year period. We would have to thank the strategy for delivering on that. We have also made a lot of progress on diversity with regard to gender. I am sure that Ms Finnegan can add a lot more.

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

Over the past ten years, there have been 31 Oscar nominations for Irish films. They have been huge successes. That strategic plan is called Building on Success because there was such good work generated during that time and we absolutely hope to continue that with the new strategy.

The one area we will focus on more in the next strategy is audience development and ensuring that when the work is generated we are able to reach as broad an audience as possible, particularly looking at the next generation audiences, and really trying to ensure that we support distribution and exhibition to ensure that we are reaching out into schools. We will be looking to generate as strong an audience reach as we can in Ireland and internationally.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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In her comments earlier, Ms Finnegan spoke about the trade mission abroad some time ago, meeting with global streamers and production companies and how that was hugely successful. While Ireland is of course an attractive place to come, apart from tax incentives I am curious as to what is the big attraction about Ireland.

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

There is so much. The skill and talent of the crew is absolutely a huge draw for Ireland. It goes without saying that the landscapes are second to none. Ireland has beautiful locations to film. There is support and a willingness on the part of all of the agencies to help. There was a question earlier about what can other State agencies do to support the industry. We have collaboration and partnership with Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland and Tourism Ireland when a project comes in. Film tourism has become a very important area around the world and the work that Tourism Ireland does in promoting those locations is very powerful for studios coming in and filming here.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Were I to ask Ms Finnegan what are Ireland's weaknesses, could she tell me? For example, what would put off global producers from coming to Ireland?

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

It is a very competitive business. A recent report last year showed 100 fiscal incentives in different countries around the world. It is very competitive. Anything that makes it a more complicated process might be off-putting. We spoke earlier about the regional uplift. Reviewing and ensuring that the tax incentive is as streamlined as it can be is also important.

With regard to the other areas, we had a virtual trade mission last year with the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, when we could not go in person. That was really valuable in building relationships and continuing those partnerships. We love to see an ongoing relationship with all of these international companies whereby they come here once and have a really good experience and then we bring them back in again with additional projects.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Bergin and Ms Finnegan. I will now hand over to my colleague, Deputy Griffin, who I am sure has questions, comments and observations for the witnesses.

Brendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chair and welcome our guests today. I apologise for missing the opening statements and earlier questions as I was speaking in the Dáil Chamber. Forgive me if I am going over ground that has been covered already.

I want to ask about issues that were touched on by the Chair but first I want to ask about cinema attendances. When do the witnesses envisage that we will get back to pre-pandemic levels? I am aware that every industry has different forecasts for when they will get back to 2019 levels. Do the witnesses have any idea or estimate on when we will see that?

On the regional spread of the industry how do we encourage filming in all regions and how do we encourage economic activity related to film in all regions of the country? Coming from Kerry I am aware that we are lucky to have a gorgeous and unique landscape. We have been very fortunate over the years with loads of high-profile films, domestic and international. How do we try to spread that to all areas of the country?

Ms Bergin spoke about Screen Ireland's collaboration with various State agencies. I am aware that Screen Ireland's collaboration with Tourism Ireland is incredibly fruitful and mutually beneficial. Does Ms Bergin envisage this continuing into the future or are there other new projects in the pipeline that she is able to tell us about?

Ms Susan Bergin:

As there were three questions there, we will share them. I will start with the regional question. The regional uplift within the provisions of section 481 helps the distribution of projects across the country. I cannot access the actual number right now but a good percentage of our projects are regional. We also have crew hubs and academies spread regionally to develop the skill set around the country. This makes it attractive for producers, indigenous and inward, to move around the country. There were quite a number of productions going on over the past year. Perhaps the Deputy will remind me of the other two questions.

Brendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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Cinema attendance and projections thereon.

Ms Susan Bergin:

Developing cinema attendance is very much within our new strategy. Ms Finnegan may correct me but I do not believe we have a prediction as to how soon we can get back to normal because it is quite a difficult one. All we can do is to support the cinema sector, which we have been doing. Our strategy considers that area to be extremely important. In normal times, we have above-normal cinema attendance and we want to continue that. We generally believe that films are mainly made to be seen in the cinema.

Brendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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The other question is about collaboration with Tourism Ireland and any forthcoming projects that might be coming up.

Ms Susan Bergin:

Not that has been disclosed to me right now but perhaps Ms Finnegan could answer that one.

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

I do not think we have any new ones and we are always very careful about speaking of the projects that might be here until the companies that are doing them are ready to share. Certainly, the partnership with Tourism Ireland is really strong and we intend to continue that with any of the major projects that come into Ireland, and we are doing everything we can in working with them.

Could I mention one word on cinema as well in terms of admissions? In 2019, as Ms Bergin was saying, we were the highest cinema-going country per capitain Europe. We in Screen Ireland are all passionate advocates in supporting cinema and ensuring we help it to evolve into the future. To give the committee a sense of numbers, in 2019, the total box office was €79 million. In 2020, it was down to €27 million, and we are at about €18 million at this stage in this year. It is impossible to predict, as Ms Bergin said, when we can get back to full capacity but we believe that when we do, we will see audiences coming back for that experience.

Brendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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Everyone misses cinema very much. Efforts that have been made to reopen cinemas. I have been back already in recent times with my children. It is marvellous to have them open again. It is to be hoped people will support them as strongly as they were supported in the past.

Ms Désirée Finnegan:

Absolutely. There were a new updated set of health and safety protocols signed up to recently by all of the exhibitors in Ireland. It is hoped it will give people a sense of comfort in terms of the length to which everyone is going to ensure people are comfortable and safe in the cinema environment.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Griffin for his question. I thank the ladies. That brings us to the end of our session today. I thank them for being with us. It is always more difficult to do these things remotely than doing it in person. I wish Ms Bergin the very best of luck in her new role. We hope we will have Ms Bergin back shortly when she is more settled into the position to get a flavour of where she is at. I wish the ladies the best of luck and thank them for their participation today.

I will suspend the meeting to allow the secretariat to get ready for our second session. We will be back with the coach and transport tourism section.