Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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That is the position they have taken. It is the position they took a long time ago. It is the framework agreed under the Mulvey agreement and all the subsequent work that has been done. It is not for me to speculate as to why transfers are made. What I can say is they stepped back from St. Vincent's Healthcare Group, I think in 2017. They are fully transferring all ownership to the healthcare group. That healthcare group does not contain any reference to the Catholic Church, to the Vatican or to anything like that. As another safeguard, it is important we go back to the National Maternity Hospital, NMH, at Holles Street. It does a very good job. We all know it provides the full range of services. I do not think any of us have ever suggested the clinical leads in the NMH would allow themselves be constrained by, let us say, a religious ethos. Let us remember the NMH itself has looked at the governance arrangements and said this gives it the clinical independence it needs. We as the Oireachtas are adding in an extra element to that, namely, the public interest. I do not mean to speak for the Deputy or anyone else on the committee but I think we all have a very high regard for the NMH at Holles Street. There is no way it would be signing up to an agreement whereby its clinical leads were being told what they could and could not do based on any religious ethos. What we all need to do is ensure that is enshrined in the legal protections and powers of the maternity hospital when it moves to Elm Park.