Ms Ann Marie Flanagan:

I completely understand where Ms Fitzpatrick is coming from. What is worrying is when these policy decisions were made and the hospitals were closed down, we were promised community mental health care and that buildings would be sought and there would be investment in supporting people, but that did not happen. Through no fault of their own, people with mental health difficulties are on the streets and in our prisons. They become the target and they are seen as the dangerous people. There seen as people without self-worth. The State must do better.

Ms Fitzpatrick is absolutely right. It is frightening for many family members. Where is the evidence that when we move people out of congregated settings that they will be treated equal to others? The Disability Act 2005 has never been commenced which is a disgrace on the part of successive Governments. The first line of the programme for Government uses health language to describe us rather than human rights language.

I cannot disagree with Ms Fitzpatrick in wanting to love and to ensure that her brother has everything he deserves. However, I do not agree that congregated settings should continue. The State has an opportunity now, especially through this committee. I listen as much as I can to the witnesses who have appeared publicly. Those who appeared last week were enlightening when they challenged things like the 18 people. No more than Ms Fitzpatrick, I was moved last week.

The way numbers are thrown around with mention of millions of euro and statistics is dehumanising in terms of how we are spoken about. I completely empathise with Ms Fitzpatrick. She did listen because we were all being asked questions. Some of the solutions lie with getting the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act resourced and commenced immediately. In the case of Ms Fitzpatrick's brother, he should be asked with the people around him who support him. Ireland has been forced to move policies arising from international obligations and not because it chose to. That is an important one.

In this instance we are discussing disabled people. It could be people in direct provision tomorrow. It was the mother and baby homes a while ago. When we are discussing groups of people, we need to stand back and look at all of them and the systems that are causing them. It is easy now to have a focused conversation on disabled people, but actually we are the result of postcolonialism and of neoliberal policies under the capitalist idea of investing in someone if we believe that person can return the money to us. However, they have not given us an example.

I wish to share my own direct lived experience. I was 38 when I had my precious son. I waited for him. I am an earner and I own my own home. However, on the day Robert was born on 21 July 2011, the HSE and my service provider took nearly half my hours from me even though I had written to tell them I was having Robert. They wrote and they said they did not have enough money to provide the minimum support needed so they were removing all what they call social hours to 200 disabled people in County Clare. I spent my maternity leave campaigning publicly for myself and the other 199 people to ensure that they could have their hours. Because I am articulate, because I was able to self-advocate and because my child would have been at risk, which was not fair, I got a reprieve. However, I do not have a right to my services.

Ms Fitzpatrick is upset. When I go back there, that upsets me. I was so traumatised. For three years I was looking back to see if there was a HSE person are or someone with the service providers. Is that sociable hours? Should Ann Marie be out with her baby? Should she be at the park? Should she be having coffee? That is the damage this does to disabled people when we do not have our rights affirmed.