Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Denis Naughten’s amendment was ruled out of order by the Bills Office. I did not have any part in that. I will address some of the Deputy's points and then will speak in general regarding Deputy Shortall’s amendment, which will allow me to address almost all of the points that have been made. When an asset includes an inherent and-or sale value and generates an income, it would be inequitable not to include both the value and the income in the assessment. It is important to note that nursing homes support scheme contributions are not a tax. They are a payment toward the cost of care for the person paying. No one in the scheme will pay more than the cost of their own care and that situation must be recognised.

Turning to amendment No. 7 in the names of Deputies Shortall and Cian O'Callaghan, regarding an annual report concerning relief in respect of a farm or relevant business, I accept Deputy Shortall’s contention that we need creative thinking in this regard. She is dead right. We have been doing much work in the Department on this aspect. I will be introducing an urgent amendment regarding this matter on Report Stage to remove the present disincentive in the scheme regarding the sale of a home in respect of the three-year cap. This amendment is being introduced in large part to address concerns about homes temporarily left vacant when their owners enter residential care.

There are two issues here. They concern the sale of the home and the fact that if the home was sold while the person was in the nursing home, there was no cap and the 7.5% charge still applied. Regarding the cap at three years, that amendment is ready and is with the Attorney General. My team has been doing a significant amount of work on that.

As Deputy Naughten noted, this has been going on for three years. I was anxious to get this Bill through. We are working very closely on a second amendment, which will not be ready in time, regarding renting out homes. The Department is continuing to engage with the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage on an agreed plan to develop a definitive policy position relating to the treatment of rental income. It is a complex and intricate matter that requires considered analysis and research to avoid unintended consequences for residents. The two Departments have been working on this for many years and have not managed to crack the nut. I attended a meeting of a Cabinet sub-committee relating to this and how we can bring it forward. I have genuine concerns, which must be dealt with before we can move it forward. However, we are working really hard on it.

I have concerns relating to safeguarding, capacity issues and premature entry into nursing homes. Approximately 70% of people in nursing homes have dementia. The income of the average person in a nursing home is his or her State pension, which is €248.30 per week. We could say it is €1,000 per month but if the house is rented out, the rental income could be between €2,000 and €2,500 per month with current prices. Notwithstanding the safeguards that are in place, I am concerned that we could see people enter nursing homes prematurely. However, I recognise the urgent issues around housing supply. We all want to see people moving into empty houses.

As I said, 37% of people who enter nursing homes stay for only six weeks. The average length of stay in a nursing home is two and a half years. We also have a lot of houses that are caught up in probate and wills relating to a person who might have died in a nursing home. The Minister and I and as the Secretary General will have a high-level meeting next week. We really want to move this matter along but that particular aspect will not be ready. Otherwise this Bill, which we have been dealing with for three years, would be delayed for another six months.

In respect of the Deputy's amendment, he is asking for a report after 12 months. A report will be ready much sooner than that. I can give assurances that the work involving recommendations relating to rental income will be done. I expect it will be done well in advance of the timeline set out in the Deputy's amendment so I hope he will withdraw it. We have already given a commitment to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and to the Taoiseach that this will be done within a six-month timeframe.