Dr. Micheál Collins:

Let me reverse back in case members missed the point I was making. There is some merit in individuals receiving some lump-sum payment that is tax free on retirement. The proposal I suggested is it would be of the order of €30,000. Unfortunately, we do not have enough information from the Revenue Commissioners and others to give us an insight into how big lump sums are. They are very big for some individuals but tend to be quite small for the vast majority of individuals. We can see that from the structure of retirement. It would be good to have that information. Some limits should be on such payments. That is the logic of the point I was making. It would not take resources away from individuals, the resources would remain in the individuals' pension savings accounts and they would draw them down and pay income tax, as appropriate, on them over the remainder of their years. It is not about taking anything away from people but about making the system fairer and limiting the exposure of the State to some of the costs.