Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick:

On Senator Chambers's question about political stability in Northern Ireland, I honestly believe that if we did not have the protocol, there would still have been elements of political instability in the North because there was a lot of disgruntlement on the part of the unionist-loyalist community. The origins of this lie with other issues to do with the marching season and so on. That is what I find as a former Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive with particular responsibility for housing in urban Belfast.

To achieve political stability, the most important thing is that politicians on all sides need to dial down the rhetoric in the North, between Britain and Northern Ireland and between Britain and Ireland. We need to get back down to the basics of what matters to the people, which is delivering for them and being able to achieve to underpin that level of political and economic stability. The European Union and the UK need to have direct discussions with the Irish Government, the parties in Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland Executive. It is only when there was persistent and consistent dialogue and an understanding emerged of the various issues and positions that we had that level of political stability.

I happen to agree with Deputy Richmond. Those elements for political and economic stability lie in the features and institutions of the Good Friday Agreement, such as the Northern Ireland Executive, the Northern Ireland Assembly, the North South Ministerial Council, the British-Irish Council and the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference. It is vitally important those structures of the agreement meet continually and that they move away from the scripted agendas that mean they are inclined to be dictated to by civil servants. I speak as a former Minister and that was my personal experience. There needs to be constant participation in the North South Ministerial Council and meetings should not be cancelled because certain Ministers cannot attend. If the principal Minister in a given instance is from Sinn Féin or the SDLP, therefore there has to be an accompanying unionist Minister. It should be mandatory that Ministers attend and subscribe to all the institutions because that was the ministerial pledge of office they took, to abide by the rules of their office. The same is true of the other position. If the principal Minister is a unionist, either from the Ulster Unionist Party or the Democratic Unionist Party, DUP, and the accompanying Minister is from a nationalist perspective, then that should be allowed to happen.

I believe that good outcomes happen when issues are discussed, whether they are about Brexit and the protocol or the climate emergency. There have been very beneficial discussions because problems do not stop at the Border. They can very much be of a cross-Border nature. It is vitally important all those institutions, such as the North South Ministerial Council and the British-Irish Council, meet very regularly. I have no doubt many of the issues we have encountered relating to the protocol and Brexit could have been ironed out by a greater level of understanding and appreciation of the other person's, or party's, point of view.