Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Dr. Muldoon and Ms Ward for their attendance. The report is concerning and eye-opening. I read it last night and refreshed my reading again this morning because there is so much in it. It is a testament to the good work the ombudsman's office has put in and it confirms a number of the concerns expressed by many of us have who have had interactions with direct provision centres in our constituencies over the years. To be fair, Ms Ward acknowledged that a lot of good work goes on in those facilities. I live not too far from the centre located in the former Ashbourne House Hotel and I can say that there is much good work being done there. The people living in it are well embedded in community groups, sporting groups and Tidy Towns committees. It is great to see. As a teacher by training, I recall the vetting I had to undergo and the Garda clearance that was required to work with children. When those children attended local sports clubs, as many of them did, all of the trainers were vetted. It is clear from the ombudsman's report that this did not happen in some of the places in which children in direct provision were residing. I find it mind-boggling when we look at all the steps community groups take to comply with all the relevant legislation that the same was not done in some cases in the direct provision system.

I agree with Dr. Muldoon that the White Paper cannot be used to support a claim that everything is going to be solved in four or five years. There undoubtedly will be a transition period. From our engagement in this committee with a large number of State organisations, we have an understanding of the time and resources it will take to implement this change. It is inevitable that there will be a period of bedding in for the new system when it is introduced. We need to get things right. I was interested to hear that the ombudsman's office will be looking at reviewing, in the next six to 12 months, what actions have been taken and which recommendations implemented. That is welcome.

In my interaction with a couple of direct provision centres locally in Cork, there were issues in regard to meals, conditions and so on. Many of them were dealt with after people who were availing of the facilities sat down with local management. It was good that this engagement worked. I found, however, that Covid was being used as an excuse for not addressing many of the things that were causing issues for people locally. There were issues with food, accommodation conditions and cooking facilities for individuals and families. Commitments were given well in advance of Covid to rectify those issues but, unfortunately, it seemed that it was only after the clamour of media reports that work was done to provide people with suitable accommodation and eating facilities. It was unfortunate that Covid was used as an excuse for putting a lot of things on the long finger.

Deputy O'Donoghue referred to drive-by inspections. A teacher in a school can be subject to a drive-by visit by an inspector any day of the week. Is there any facility for inspections to be done in direction provision centres without their being flagged in advance? Is that kind of regime in place or has it ever been in place?

I have another question on inspections. Under finding No. 12, the ombudsman's report states: "Tusla has failed to identify a named social worker for a DP centre in their area..." To the best of the witnesses' knowledge, is this indicative of a wider problem across the sector? I do not like using the word "sector" because we are dealing with people's absence, but I want to know whether the absence of social workers was prevalent in the studies the ombudsman's office did and if this is indicative of their absence on a wide scale.

Under recommendation No. 3, the report states that the Minister for Health has agreed that HIQA will take on the role of monitoring centres during the transition period. Has this initiative taken effect and where are we at in the process? Have resources been committed and staff delegated to do those inspections?

Regarding referrals, Dr. Muldoon mentions in his report that there were 162 referrals from IPAS to Tusla from 2017 to 2020. I understand Tusla has stated that it had 510 referrals over a similar period. There is a disconnect there that highlights the lack of interaction between those agencies and the invisibility of children in the system. The fact that the numbers do not line up makes it clear that children have fallen through the cracks. With whom does responsibility ultimately lie in this regard? Is it with IPAS, Tusla or the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth? Where does the buck stop?

Finally, it is great to have this valuable report and I do not want to detract from it. Will the witnesses indicate what recourse the ombudsman's office will have in six or 12 months if, in conducting its reviews, it finds there is continual ignorance of, or failure to implement, any of the recommendations? I do not want to be seen to predict the future or to ask the ombudsman to look into a crystal ball, but there is a great deal in the document and I would be surprised if it is fully implemented in 12 months. Where does the ombudsman's office go if there is a failure to implement?