Marc MacSharry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fianna Fail)
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I am talking about the loss of taxpayers' money. The head of TLAC, who wrote that the Civil Service is a game with no consequences went on to say the response to failure is "sideways moves" and "easy exits". The Secretary General of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform told me at the Committee of Public Accounts – the record will show it – that we do not have a "gotcha" culture. In other words, it is okay in the context of the example I am using here, to lose €10 million without anything other than for that to be a learning experience.

Is that the culture that Mr. Fraser would like to promote? He is a member of TLAC, which presumably chose this candidate. He is now in charge of the biggest budget we have, along with social welfare. Is this the culture that is there? Conor Brady is the independent chair of TLAC. Mr. Fraser remembers a time when he was neither a member of TLAC nor its chair. Was he right in his article or did he introduce reforms since he came in?

It gives me no pleasure to say that what I am hearing from Mr. Fraser now is that he is not the head of the Civil Service and there is no head of the Civil Service and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform's attitude that losing money through negligence and mistakes is an acceptable culture and that we do not have a "gotcha" culture. Mr. Fraser is not very convincing, and it does not give me the confidence that we should be paying people €100,000 never mind €300,000.