Mr. Gerard Guinan:

On Deputy Berry's question on the committee writing to the Minister and the technical pay review, we would welcome that. Obviously, a bit of teasing out will be needed between the Defence Forces and the Department, but it needs to be implemented as soon as possible.

In response to Senator O'Reilly on the issue of the pay review body, to clarify, we have written to the commission on the future of the Defence Forces. The proposed pay review body has not been established. PDFORRA does not believe that a pay review body is appropriate. We do not want a pay review body. We are committed to ICTU and the collective bargaining process in respect of our members' pay. I cannot make that point strongly enough. We believe that a pay review body will do long-term damage to the organisation.

In respect of orders, all orders are lawful unless they are unlawful orders. I know that is a circular statement. For example, it is not lawful to order a person to kill somebody if they are not posing a threat. We work on the premise that all orders are lawful unless they are deemed to be unlawful.

On the question of why we believe that ICTU will not punish us, it is because of the solidarity within ICTU. As an association, if we were punished, we would come out and say that was the case. However, as things currently stand, we are getting bare deals anyway. We cannot do any worse. I am not going to compare the situation to a Monty Python sketch but I am sure that the members will know to which sketch I am alluding. We cannot be treated any worse than we are currently being treated. That is the situation. We believe that we will be better served by affiliation to ICTU.

On the issue of ARW adjudications, Deputy Berry is right. As a former member of the unit, he knows how hard these guys work.

They work extremely long hours in dangerous conditions. It is regrettable that we had to take their claim to the International Labour Organization earlier in the year. We have two cases, for the chefs and the account holders allowance, with the courts. We mentioned this to the Minister yesterday. He said he is committed to increasing the size of the Army Ranger Wing and I believe him. He says he wants to work with it. To increase the size, the Government needs to make that commitment and uphold promises to these people. A peer review was mooted a number of years ago and it needs to be honoured. These people need to be paid appropriately and given the proper allowances. I believe the Minister wants to increase the size and favours them.

I think that is it. I have tried to be as concise as possible in the answers and I hope I have not left anybody out. I thank the committee for the work it does and the oversight it provides in holding Government to task on defence issues.

PDFORRA is extremely proud of the contribution its members have made over that past year. They have done Trojan work, including contract tracing, swabbing, vaccination, putting up tents with the engineers and working different plans. The Naval Service has deployed ships to act as swabbing centres. The Air Corps has worked on the emergency air ambulance service. All our members have put the shoulder to the wheel with reduced numbers. We need as a nation to be serious about defence. These people are the last line and have proven their worth time and again and definitely this year.

I ask the committee to make every representation it can for these people. They deserve it. I thank the committee for its hard work.