Ms Deirdre Garvey:

The issues of funding and funding levels are connected because community organisations and charities are independently governed. They have boards of directors or charity trustees and they have to make decisions based on the mission and purpose of the organisation and indeed the money and the resources they may have to hand, either through cash, volunteer hours or benefit-in-kind. The Deputy is right that we are tracking the cuts in funding to our sector from 2008 onwards. Cumulatively, it was an average of 43% in significant cuts at a time when public expenditure was being cut between 5% and 7% cumulatively. They were disproportionate cuts to the services delivered through community and voluntary organisations at that time, which in some places were being rebuilt or re-established, and then there was the whammy of Covid.

We want to rise above the cycle of crisis to engage with the Government on full cost recovery. If you want community and voluntary organisations to be partners in delivering outcomes for people and communities, what does that look like with regard to real costs? To call a financial bookkeeper or a co-ordinator for health and safety "overheads" and not direct service delivery is a misunderstanding of what it takes to run a service in a high-quality and high-transparency way, as well as highly publicly accountable to groups and committees such as this, and rightly so. There is engagement. Mr Cooper mentioned the hope we have with regard to the Department of Health, the HSE, the independent review group and HSE-funded public services, but it is an ongoing challenge. If we are going to rebuild back better, or rebuild forwards better, we will have to tackle this chestnut. For every 100 people working in the public sector to deliver public services in the country, there are another 50 people delivering public benefit and public services employed in the voluntary sector. Does Mr. Cooper have any last comments about the pay issue?