Mr. Trevor Lunn:

Deputy Tóibín referenced the fact Reverend Karen had said matters moved slowly and had to move slowly, but I could point to a couple of major issues in the South that moved slowly for 500 years before suddenly accelerating and being dealt with effectively and quickly by the South. Those were the two significant social issues that have already been mentioned.

The Deputy referred to 50% plus one. There is a suggestion that it should be changed to a more definite expression of opinion, perhaps 60:40 or two thirds. That suggestion is largely coming from south of the Border rather than north. I can think of a referendum - the Brexit referendum - where 50% plus one was perfectly acceptable to the people who wanted to leave. They got their way. I do not see any reason to change what has been laid down in an international treaty, namely, the Good Friday Agreement, under which 50% plus one on both sides of the Border is sufficient. To me, that is a referendum.

The Deputy made an interesting point about convergence. When does the discussion on convergence start? Does it start after a referendum? Not really, as it must start long before that so people know what they are in for and what their prospects are.

Reference was made to the health service in particular. When I consider the health service scenario on both sides of the Border, I am aware that in the South the Government has the ten-year Sláintecare programme to bring the health service there up to the point where it could be free at the point of delivery for everybody, which would be great. That would be in line with the National Health Service we have. There are people who defend our health service and say that we are far better off than those in the South. Maybe we are slightly better off in some ways but we currently have waiting lists exceeding 300,000. This is partly as a result of Covid-19, obviously, but the problem goes much further back than that. It is going to take years to solve. When I look at the two health services I do not see an awful lot of difference. When I look forward I see even less difference. If we could converge the two systems and increase the level of co-operation that actually already exists across the Border, it would be a good step along the road.

On the other issues, I admire Educate Together in the South. It can be compared to our integrated education movement. I wish it well. It is something that could also be worked on jointly. All of these issues are resolvable.