Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I cannot say it because I have no evidence of it. The courts will decide that, which is what the liquidation process is about. The Duffy Cahill report made recommendations around preventing companies that might engage in that practice but that is not to say the companies we are discussing have engaged in it. That is an opinion. Some Members of this House have made assumptions, rightly or wrongly, but I do not have the evidence to make that comment. If anyone has any evidence, it would be very useful to the liquidation process to make sure employees get their entitlements if the assets are there because I presume that when those agreements were made, the assets were there. As I said previously, people who enter collective agreements understand there is enough funding in place to pay for them down the line.

The Deputy referred to foreign ownership. Again, I do not think there is necessarily any connection between what happened to Debenhams and who owned it. From what I can see, Debenhams has been in trading difficulties for many years. I have not followed its story - I am not involved in retail - but the fact that it was restructuring in 2015 or 2016 around redundancies showed that it had difficulties for a long number of years. I am not sure it is right to say it is because it belonged to a foreign owner. The Deputy is asking us to look at the owners of every company and see what needs to be done. I am not sure where he is going with that.

I chaired the retail forum and I engage practically daily with the retail sector. The trade unions are represented on the forum. We discuss all the circumstances relating to retail and Covid. Retail is a major employer. Over 300,000 people are employed in the retail sector and it one I want to develop. I want to recognise and develop the skills in this area and bring in new technologies. There are loads of opportunities and potential for retail but it is in a very difficult period. This is why the State is moving very quickly to put supports in place using taxpayers' money to support these businesses and guide them through this period. Being restricted in terms of trading when one's premises is closed is very difficult so we are working with that sector to bring it through this. It has a positive future if we can get through this. That does not mean there will not be more companies that will end up in a difficult situation. Some are already very close to or are in that situation and we will engage with them all as quickly as possible. This is what we are trying to do.

Regarding ownership, I am not sure what changes Deputy Shanahan wants us to introduce or what he is trying to achieve. Again, I must say the situation is different compared with what is referred to in the Duffy Cahill report in respect of where others are joining the dots. I do not think the authors would agree with the Deputy on that point.