Mr. Bernard Gloster:

On Deputy Cathal Crowe's point on consistency, he has made all the points I have made. On what might be seen as vexatious reporting and the Deputy's reference to family law, in particular, there is a view abroad that Tusla is involved in every family law case, separation and divorce and in every issue in which there is a dispute around children. That is not the case. There are many thousands of those cases in the family courts that Tusla does not come into contact with. There are facilities available to the court under the Act where, if in the course of those proceedings, a concern is expressed about the well-being of a child, the court can direct assessment under the provisions of the Act and Tusla carries out that assessment to the best of its ability. In those cases, because Tusla's primary role is in relation to the safety and support of the children, we tend to look at what the safety and context is for the child, as distinct to looking at whether a particular incident or issue is substantiated or proven to be false or not. I am not aware of any case in which Tusla would have made a complaint to the Garda or the Director of Public Prosecutions about what might be called a vexatious case. There are many avenues for people to do that.

On the schools, I accept the Deputy's bona fides about the difference. I have said that I accept there is a difference. That is why it is extremely important to continue family support as opposed to just child protection.

Where I am anxious to get to in responding to the type of children teachers are concerned about is that we do not get to a stage where we are consistently talking about thresholds and that we are able to start talking about pathways for children. If it is not at the threshold of child protection, that should not mean it is closed or stays standing. It should get directed into a pathway in which the school and the family can still be supported in a meaningful way by the services and the State. That is what the pathway of practice reforming in Tusla is targeted at and geared towards. I accept that, for now, there are many situations in which that is a source of frustration for people and there is no point in me trying to deny that. When a system is being changed, that takes a considerable period of time. The Deputy's concern about the Child and Family Agency having that level of variation when it is, of itself, the protecting agency, is indicative of the history that the agency has come from through the health board and HSE eras to become Tusla, an agency operating across 17 areas of the country.

I will have to look more into the needs assessment issue that Deputy Costello raised. I would not be prepared to commit to saying that a definitive needs assessment of what is needed will be done but there is comparative analysis with Northern Ireland, England and other jurisdictions as to the level of social work that is available in Ireland. We are on the lower end of that. I must confess that I have not heard of any particular activity involving Tusla and the family court building so I would need to check what might or might not be in that and to come back to the Deputy on that.

On the workforce plan, Deputy Costello asked me about recruitment earlier and I know he was talking about foster carers as well. On staff recruitment, we have 22 dedicated staff working full-time in recruitment to try to manage and approve the recruitment process itself. We are doing workforce planning for next year and we are looking at an evidence-based allocation of any new resources. I do not see much point in trying to change the resource allocation of what has existed heretofore. We would lose too much energy trying to move things around that way but workforce planning is critical.

On the needs assessment side, that is all tied into an interdepartmental group on social work education that is looking at that range of issues. I entirely agree with the Deputy on the skill mix transfer of skills and on employing multidisciplinary teams, including social care workers and other staff, led by social workers providing responses. That is as distinct from every child in every situation having to have a social worker assigned in the traditional model.