Ms Clare Daly:

We should consider how we take this co-operation forward in future. I agree with the point Ms Walsh made. We need to dig deeper into the subjects. We are straying a bit from some of the topics but we should stick to answering members' questions if we can. We should go into depth and leave ourselves open for other meetings on other issues.

To follow on from Deputy Haughey's point about migration and some of the points that Mr. Kelleher made, there is significant pressure on some of the key migration hotspots of Europe but it is not caused by large numbers of migrants. It is caused by the Dublin regulation, which has forced them into these areas, while other countries do not take an adequate number. That is an important point and it is an area in which Ireland can play a role. It is true to say that the Parliament will be more progressive on the issue of migration and that it generally takes quite a progressive position, but it will be after that when the problems kick in.

Deputy Haughey's points on rule-of-law issues were very relevant because he got to the heart of the problem and the crisis facing the European project. Anything goes. There is wheeling and dealing, and unsavoury alliances are being made, on the grounds that it is good for business and keeping the European show on the road. However, this means that talk of fundamental rights, the rule of law and European values is an Orwellian doublespeak because it does not exist in reality. There is incredible discrimination between who is adhering to the rule of law and who is not. As an example, I am the rapporteur for the fundamental rights report that will go before the Parliament probably this month or in December.

We have had enormous battles around countries not wanting to be named in it. We have accredited and verified abuses of fundamental rights but MEPs and groups have opposed the naming of countries in the report. For example, there have been violations of human rights in Spain in terms of the treatment of the Catalan political prisoners and so on, which is being dealt with by the UN, but they do not want that mentioned. Nobody wants to criticise Spain, but it is okay to criticise Poland and Hungary. God knows, there are many reasons to criticise Poland and Hungary but that is too easy. There are many other countries that are flagrantly breaching the rule of law as well. It took an age for infringement proceedings to be taken against those countries in spite of the most appalling violations of the rule of law there.

We recently had a situation in Bulgaria, the governing party of which is in the EPP grouping as well. It is effectively a mafia state. It is the poorest country in the European Union. Its political leaders have been responsible for defrauding huge amounts of EU money. That is indisputable. There has been massive judicial interference in that the role of the Prosecutor General is such that he, in connivance with the Prime Minister, decides who is and is not prosecuted. There are enormous problems with corruption and abuse of rule of law but this is never mentioned.

Under the confidence building measures, CBM, Bulgaria and Romania had to fulfil certain conditions before they would be fully included as full members of the European project. Last year, the European Parliament, with the exception of our group, thankfully, because through knowing Irish people in Bulgaria we needed to raise some of the issues there, agreed that Bulgaria should be given a clean bill of health. What changed the situation was Bulgarian citizens coming out onto the streets, which relates to Deputy Haughey's point about him being pessimistic about how things are going to change. For almost four months now Bulgarian citizens have been protesting every night for a change in Government and for the EU to intervene and deal with their country. On foot of that, we were able to use the Parliament to put forward a very hard-hitting motion, which had a really good impact in Bulgaria and gave people there a huge lease of life. It is correct to say that it comes back to the Council and the fact that the leadership in Bulgaria is very friendly with Angela Merkel's party and is well-in with the ruling gang. In that sense, it makes it very difficult for them to call it to account. Deputy Haughey is correct that-----.