Dr. Larry O'Connell:

My thanks to Deputy O'Sullivan for what is a great question. I found myself asking whether the question should be reframed as whether we can afford not to be green, having listened to Professor Anderson. I suppose much of the work the National Economic and Social Council has done on climate in general has looked at how we can figure this out. The question is can we afford not to be green. Much of the work we have done in NESC has tried to focus on the question of what is economically viable for people. There is a sense that we have to grapple with that and figure out how exactly we can bring down costs and arrive at viable solutions that protect people's livelihoods and find good futures for them. That is what we have looked at.

We have concerns about agriculture. The way we are going to figure this out is to engage with people in agriculture or engage with workers in Bord na Móna to figure out what types of other activities they can do that are viable for them. It comes down to trying to engage with the people. In general, our experience has been that people on the front line, including farmers, for example, are interested in trying to figure out viable opportunities. How do we ensure that they do not believe transition is imposed on them? How do we ensure they are seen to be involved in co-producing a viable way forward? Rather than a sense of asking people to do things that are uneconomic, the question is how to engage people to figure out opportunities that are viable for them. Our experience of the best source of that is to engage with the people who are working in these areas.

Dr. Moore might want to say something more. I know it is a general answer to the question from Deputy O’Sullivan. It is a really good question and we probably need more time to think about it but that is my general response.