Ms Angela Dorgan:

I thank the Senator for the support. I agree 100% that galleries, theatres and cinemas are safe places where social distancing can be adhered to. At the meeting the Minister arranged for us with the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, representatives from his Department and the then acting CMO, we were able to make that case. The worry was congregation before and after. The arts sector, as I alluded to earlier, responded quickly and early to the restriction of 50 and what it could do. Everybody pivoted in the context of ticketing systems. Nobody could buy more than four tickets in one go. People sit in pods when they arrive or they sit apart in a theatre. Coming into the winter, it will be difficult for us, as a nation, anyway. Where we can start to open up and start to get out there and experience that art in person again, then the position in respect of cinemas, galleries and theatres can and should be re-examined repeatedly. We need to give ourselves permission to change our minds. What we said last week might be the same as what is being said this week. If, however, this week's decision makes it a little easier because we have listened to a particular idea, then we should forgive ourselves for that politically and in the context of our sector. We need to be able to change our minds on matters like that. Those areas that the Senator has talked about are safe already. They could be safer or deemed to be safe in level 3 as much as they are in level 2.

I agree that the Minister and the Department have been incredibly supportive right throughout the crisis, as have all three parties in government. Everyone involved has been incredibly reactive to us, as a sector. I suppose yesterday's budget had a certain feel about it, not only in the context of the €50 million for events, the €130 million for the Arts Council and the €3 for Creative Ireland but also with regard to the various decisions made. I referred to this earlier. I cannot over-egg the pudding when speaking to all the people in this room about their contributions or when I refer how those in the sector felt when seeing the Taoiseach talk about the arts in the way he did last night and realise that he gets it and to see the Minister getting her colleagues in government onto the same page. As I am listening to the members, it sounds as if there was open door for each and every last one of them. I do not think there is a citizen who does not agree that the arts are really important. That is great. I agree with Deputy Cannon that it took a pandemic for us to all realise just how important the sector is. It is also important to allow ourselves to revisit those activities in society that are actually safe, if we can start to say that cases are going in a particular direction and ask whether we can be a little more open in certain areas.

Senator Carrigy is correct about cinemas, pantomimes and galleries. Some of the events funding is aimed encouraging those involved with pantomimes to come up with innovative ideas, maybe as a seat subsidy for a pantomime to go ahead and for the production company to still pay its actors, musicians, lighting crew and event staff. It is, perhaps, an acknowledgement that this was previously a commercial endeavour and that parts of what these people have to do deliver a show may have to be subsidised. I think that is what the events budget in the Department is for. I do not know, in terms of levels 3 and 4, if pantomimes can go ahead. If we are re-examining those places where social distancing can be adhered to and where people would be congregating on the way to a show, for example, outside the theatre, then we are aware from our conversations with NPHET that this is where the concerns lie. There is not a challenge that has not been met or tried to be met by the sector. Given time, we may solve more of those.