David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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I want to pick up on a point that Ms King made about Bord na Móna. There was a fear that management was trying to de-unionise the company. When I look at all the ingredients here - the fact that solutions are not in place and the failure of management to engage with trade unions in the forum that was supposed to be established or with the structures - there is a responsibility on this committee to listen, to engage with the Minister and to be forceful on this matter. The Minister tells us in the Oireachtas almost every week that the just transition is up and running and will work and that various supports are being put in place. We are hearing from the unions that Bord na Móna management is not engaging, which is not good enough. I do not know whether this is also the case in the ESB. Perhaps the witnesses can comment on that. Our responsibility is to listen to the expert witnesses, who represent the workers, and to bring their comments back to the Minister. I ask Ms King to elaborate on what she said about her fear that an effort is being made to de-unionise the workforce. She is saying that when the jobs are gone, they are gone. There is no point in talking about what might happen down the road, if there is a possibility the workers will have left at that point.