Barry Cowen (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We will see what we can do. There are four groups before us and I have questions for each.

I will start in reverse order with Mr. Armstrong. It is contended that each retrofit could cost €50,000. Is that true? He might answer the questions later, as I want to get through all of them. In Offaly, 40% of households burn peat. The figure nationally is 5%. What opportunity can the retrofit programme offer all sectors as opposed to just the social sector? I would have expected this to be incorporated in any just transition programme. If that is not the case, it should be. What about the statutory instrument produced this year that the High Court found against recently? If not acted on, that decision could result in the loss of many more jobs in horticultural peat.

Turning to the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment, there is a muddying of the waters in that there is a just transition for the workforce and for the region. They should be separated, but brought together where possible. The suggestion made by the union at our earlier session was a sound one. The Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, could be used as a forum to address many of the industrial relations issues, which we are led to believe are not being solved adequately. That is a fact. There were many changes in Bord na Móna down the years. We lived with them and bought into them, and the region prospered because of it. A consensus being arrived at between the relevant stakeholders allowed progress to be made. For example, Shannonbridge, Lough Ree and Edenderry were used to replace the previous plant. We would have expected a longer lifespan thereafter, but that has not been the case.

I am sorry that the CEO of the ESB could not be present. He should be, but if he cannot, then he cannot. It is unfortunate if that is the case. I acknowledge the comments on the contribution being made to community gain. That is something for the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government to be conscious of, too. It is near time that a process was set in legislation by which permissions could be conditioned to make funds available to local authorities for their dispersal in line with their development plans rather than relying on the goodwill that we have expected of the ESB or Bord na Móna heretofore. There is no structure to that, but there needs to be one. I am conscious of local authorities' rate bases. To be parochial, my county could lose up to €40 million over the next ten years when we believed we were going to gain €60 million if the transition payment was annual and retraced the funds from the carbon tax that were already in revenue resources. It is not just an increased amount. Rather, we must pull it back over time for its intended purpose.

My next point is for the ESB, but the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment can take note of it. I am surprised that Government policy was not adhered to in the decision taken by An Bord Pleanála. No effort was made by either party to insist on a new application to address that. Government policy was left behind and thrown to the side. I am told that a judicial review could only have been sought on a point of law in respect of the planning process. I contend that the best point of law would have been that Government policy was not adhered to in the planning process or taken into consideration when arriving at a decision. Government policy is the democratic process at work.

An Taisce does great work, and I compliment it on much of the work it does, but it is merely an advisory body. It is not a democratically elected body answerable to the people to whom I and the Government are answerable. That should have been to the forefront of everyone's concerns when they were looking at this decision.

On Bord na Móna, we need clarification on the future of the Edenderry power station and of the briquette factory in Derrinlough, and on how long these rehabilitation jobs will last. I need clarification from the Department on whether the PSO will fund the rehabilitation of the bogs as they become useless as regards resourcing to the plant. Will the PSO be used to go beyond the onus on Bord na Móna as it is currently constituted? Can Bord na Móna confirm that reserves of €20 million for that purpose are already in place in the books, which should have been the case in any event?

I refer to the funding that may be achievable from the EU in respect of the carbon regions in transition, as they are now known. There needs to be a meeting of minds as to the purpose of that application because I have heard that is for rehabilitation also. Are we looking at the workforce and the regions? There are templates in other countries that have been mentioned where a similar pathway could be found for funding and its direction thereafter. I refer to the length of time the jobs referred to will be retained.

On the Bord na Móna pensions, currently, there are 2,000 pensioners. Many more have come on stream weekly and monthly in recent months and will come on stream into next year. Can the witnesses state categorically that the pension has the capacity to meet its obligations? The workforce and pensioners need to know that.