Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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Someone, I cannot remember who it was, stated in one of the newspapers that nobody should recommend an apprenticeship until the middle and professional classes and the politicians start deciding their children should pursue them. That is a good point. I am aware that the Institute of Guidance Counsellors is working very closely with the organisations. That is important and in fairness to Ms Dooley and her team, they are making great efforts to continue to adapt what they do. I am not asking them to change what they do or to be different as guidance counsellors. We do not want that. We want them to do what they are doing and to continue to adapt to changing circumstances.

It is worthwhile to reiterate that under the confidence and supply agreement, our priority really was to increase the number of guidance counsellors. There were a few in the Department at the time who held a view that was certainly expressed to me, maybe not on the floor of the Dáil but privately by a politician, that business people should be in schools teaching kids about business, careers and all that. I have no difficulty with that but it has to be done at the behest of a qualified guidance counsellor. It is really important that they work together and that guidance counsellors continue with the mission they have, which is a mission of education, rather than simply a mission of career progression. They are educators first and foremost and are guidance counsellors in the context of education. Education is very broad. We want to emphasise the importance of apprenticeships; I want that as much as anyone and have written a policy document on it. However, it is one aspect of education.

Some people are looking to the examples of Germany and Switzerland where there are a large number of apprentices in training courses and so on. They are completely different systems. I am also afraid on the other hand of some people using apprenticeships as a way to reduce pressure on the third-level system. That is the wrong approach. We cannot push apprenticeships with the message that a large proportion of students are not going to get the traditional third-level education that previous generations have felt entitled to. Apprenticeship must be recognised as an equal partner in the education system. The qualifications apprentices get may be on a par with the equivalent level in academia but that really means nothing until society knows it and it is up to us to continue to press the point home. The guidance counsellors are to the fore in that regard but it is really the parents and society in general that have to change mindsets.

When our friends in the media, who are, I am sure, hanging on every word of the committee, publish league tables of schools based on where students go to college, it should be recognised in large print at the top that they do not include apprenticeships, which are at the same level as the university degrees on which schools are ranked. Such tables do not include people who go back to college later either. I have no difficulty with people examining ratings to see where kids are going, but it is important to know that these tables do not show the full picture. It is up to all of us to press that point home. The organisations present do that together. It is the mission of SOLAS, but the educational mission of members of the Institute of Guidance Counsellors must also be much broader than a focus on careers only.