Ms Beatrice Dooley:

I thank the committee. I was told I have six minutes and I will try to keep it within that timeline.

I thank the committee for its invitation. I am here to talk about the role of guidance counsellors in schools in promoting apprenticeships as a viable route to further education and training. I am delighted to have the opportunity, in the words of Tracy Chapman, to “tell it like it is.” In last decade industry has not engaged with guidance counsellors in the way it used to in the past. In sharp contrast, all colleges provide comprehensive information on their courses for our members annually. Thanks to an IGC initiative and the labour market stakeholders who answered our call last year, guidance counsellors are knowledgeable about skill shortages and new initiatives in the area of apprenticeships and traineeships.

During the review of guidance l was surprised to hear stakeholders criticise our members for not promoting apprenticeships. I knew a lot of good work was happening on the ground but also recognised that our members had been under a lot of pressure since the cuts in 2012 when we had lost 25% of our guidance allocation. In the autumn of 2018 I reached out to our labour market stakeholders and approached SOLAS, with a view to joining forces to deliver continuous professional development, CPD, programmes to over 1,300 guidance counsellors nationwide. Ms Maria Walsh from SOLAS was instrumental in helping me to kick-start my vision to bring labour market information on CPD to guidance counsellors. I invited the major labour market stakeholders in Ireland to collaborate with the IGC to deliver a joint CPD initiative focused on skill shortages and new initiatives in the area of apprenticeships and traineeships. The up-to-date CPD programme was developed by the IGC in collaboration with SOLAS, Future Skills, the institutes of technology, all education and training boards, ETBs, local employers and apprenticeship providers, including the Electricity Supply Board, ESB; the Construction Industry Federation, CIF; Accounting Technicians Ireland, ATI, and CareersPortal. These eight labour market stakeholders have travelled the length and breadth of the country to deliver the CPD programme to our members. We have nine branches complete and the remaining seven are booked for this year. The tenth, in Kilkenny, is taking place today. Thanks to this CPD programme, guidance counsellors in all 16 branches will ultimately be equipped with cutting-edge information on labour market skill shortages, apprenticeships and traineeships. The information is bespoke to each individual IGC branch. It is in PowerPoint presentation form and can be communicated to students through one-to-one appointments, in class and to parents during annual presentations. Furthermore, at CPD events, guidance counsellors are afforded the opportunity to network with labour market stakeholders and invite them to their schools to deliver careers talks and to liaise with local employers to set up appropriate work placements for their students. Already, participating apprenticeship providers have reported that they are visiting schools more frequently at the invitation of the guidance counsellors who attended the CPD programme. Guidance counsellors are once again knowledgeable about skill shortages. The remaining obstacles facing guidance counsellors who wish to acquaint their students about the advantages of pursuing apprenticeships are a lack of time, inadequate access and parental prejudice.

In terms of time, the ICG argues that for students who are predominantly kinaesthetic learners, the traditional learning experience which still dominates second level education can be soul destroying. These students typically excel in hands-on, practical learning. If they become switched off at school and have no one to join the dots for them, they are in danger of not signing up for apprenticeships. In many schools the guidance counsellor’s first opportunity to interact with students on an individual basis is in fifth year but by then it is too late to retain or influence disenchanted students. We need timely, one-to-one access to students to identify potential apprenticeships at the very latest by third year but ideally in first year. For this to happen, we need a return to the ex-quota guidance allocation system and the pre-2012 circular on allocations. We also need a guidance allocation ring-fenced for apprenticeships that will enable us to adequately support new apprenticeships and traineeships. We are spread too thinly, with 64% of our members dealing with mental health issues on a daily basis. The 2019 action plan for education committed to reintroducing and enhancing guidance counselling in second level schools. When will the Department deliver on this promise?

The Adult Education Guidance Association, AEGA, called for a suitable process for adult learners to sign up to an apprenticeship in its Future and Emerging Technologies, FET, submission. In the evaluations of the national roll-out of labour market information on CPD our members are calling for a full day of CPD on an annual basis. Last year the four managerial bodies demonstrated their support by releasing our members for one full day to attend the prototype of the CPD programme in Combilift, County Monaghan. The event was attended by guidance counsellors who had travelled from the four corners of the country. It is our further recommendation that time be allotted at future IGC labour market information CPD events to present to parents and communicate to them the wide range of apprenticeships available, with almost 60 currently on offer. We also want to explain to parents how apprentices earn as they learn, how much they earn, that apprenticeships suit smart people, that there are eight learning styles and that different apprenticeships suit different students. It is also important for parents to know that apprentices go to college as part of their training and can proceed to level nine courses if they demonstrate the ability and interest to do so.

At a recent ETB conference I flagged an input on apprenticeships for the National Parents Council Post Primary, NCPPP, in which it was very interested. The de-stigmatising of apprenticeships is essential to ensure buy-in from parents. Our members are frustrated because they are identifying potential apprentices in school and bringing in employers to address them at career events only to find that some parents are preventing their children from attending the talks. Can we work together to facilitate a space in which qualified apprentices can describe their positive experiences directly to parents?

I draw attention to some of the IGC's recommendations. We need practical support from policy makers to put in place the scaffolding to support the IGC's labour market information on CPD in order that it will continue after my term of office ends. A more structured policy-driven approach is needed to ensure students will be accessing good quality, appropriate and safe work experience that is meaningful and focused on skills attainment during senior cycle in second level schools. Incentives such as the provision of tax breaks could be used to encourage small employers to take on apprentices.

I will finish by again quoting Tracy Chapman: “What breaks your heart, What keeps you awake at night, What makes you want to break down and cry.” For over 1,300 guidance counsellors, it is to walk past students who need their guidance counselling expertise on their way to teach French or business, to have the skills and the smarts to solve their problems and not be allocated adequate time to do the job they are qualified and have been trained to do.