Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I thank the witnesses for coming in. Mr. Garvey was originally down my neck of the woods on the insurance side of things. The witnesses have been brought in today because a problem is accruing. We have seen it in Galway. It seems to be spreading to other areas. The witnesses will be familiar with the amount of work done by voluntary groups like Tidy Towns committees in towns like Ballintubber and Glenamaddy. These groups are active in County Clare and right around the country. Over recent months, some county councils have sent out letters explaining the new construction and non-construction system they are implementing. Grass cutting is a non-construction activity, whereas wall building is a construction activity. The councils are looking for an indemnity for those people who are out doing the work. It has to be borne in mind that in many little villages - some of them are small one-horse towns, to be quite honest - two or three people go out to keep the place looking better. They have made Ireland look an awful lot cleaner over recent years.

The witnesses will be familiar with Galway Rural Development, GRD, in County Galway. Such groups tend to do the bigger jobs like building stone walls or working on bends. Those jobs help local areas and make them better. I will explain the situation we are facing at the moment. GRD is responsible for the likes of Tús. There is a body over all of that. I am not picking on that group on its own. In smaller towns like Glenamaddy, Dunmore and Ballintubber, the Tidy Towns group has to give an indemnity to the council. In fairness, the council has the insurance to facilitate that. The RSS and the Tús scheme, which were mentioned by Mr. Garvey, are looking for an indemnity for the same thing from the Tidy Towns committee. The Tidy Towns committee has to send its insurance into Galway County Council or whatever the relevant council is. It has to compile lists under the construction and non-construction system. Groups like GRD look at the list and say "we can do this, that and the other, but we have to get a method statement". I will explain where the big problem is. It is not confined to places where groups like GRD are active. If volunteers from a Tidy Towns group, or two people in a one-horse village, go out with their lawnmower, they are expected to have signage and lighting. They are expected to put out signs 200 m, 400 m and 600 m from where they are working, but they do not have the gear.

I have a question for Mr. McHugh of the CCMA about the county and city councils. Things might be different in cities where local authorities have many workers to do work for them in parks, etc. Some of the witnesses may be familiar with the situation in small towns. If we are going to put this onus on ordinary people, we are codding ourselves. The voluntary sector in Ireland is unique and extraordinary, but if we continue to frighten the living daylights out of people with paperwork and indemnities, it is going to be left there.

No council has the funding to do this work. No one seems to want to address the issue. Everyone wants an indemnity but at the end of the day this work is being done for the benefit of rural Ireland.

There is another issue that is very unclear. We need a different category for towns that have more than 1,000 cars passing through daily, for example, Milltown in County Galway. It is a bit easier when the number of cars passing through is less than 1,000. I saw it in Ballinamore Bridge where I was talking to Pádraig O'Brien the other day. The village does not have a shop and no longer has a post office. It is a reminiscence of a village. There are two grass verges to be cut but volunteers do not know what to do to keep the village tidy. They are now expected to do a three day course. These volunteers are working at other jobs and they will not do this. They are also expected to buy signs and put them up and take them down every evening. They have no money to buy signs. Organisations such as Galway Rural Development, GRD, are saying they will assess jobs they are involved in through Tús and the rural social scheme, RSS. They will explain how the job can be done but they do not have enough supervisors to get out to every job. The volunteers must have a three day course done to set up all the signs. That is the greatest load of codswallop.

This is not political. In fairness to the Minister, Deputy Ring, he has given funding to the Tidy Towns groups, which are active in every county. It is lovely to drive through towns and see that they now look better, even since the bust. However, volunteers are now walking away because of bureaucracy. Mr. Garvey knows what is being done in Ballintubber. There was a meeting in Claregalway about various types of insurance, indemnities and so on. People are walking away from doing this work because they do not have the three day or one day course done. They do not have time to do these courses which also cost them money. As for the Tidy Towns groups, if it is a big town the group may have a few quid but where there are two people involved in a place that gets €1,000 a year, they end up paying to cut the bit of grass. They get a lawnmower and go out at night to cut the grass. We had the spring clean-up a few weeks ago where councils supplied gloves and stuff but at the same time the Tidy Towns groups are basically asked now to take all the risk.

People will walk away and if that happens, there will be no funding available. It does not matter which Government is in power because no Government will have the funding to provide manpower to cut all the grass and do everything else in a town. That might happen in a city. The spirit of volunteerism is under threat and I want the witnesses, as a group, to come up with a way of resolving this issue. IPB Insurance or someone could liaise with the various groups. Insurance bureaucracy and the requirement on people to sign their name mean we are at serious risk, in rural areas especially, of losing the millions of hours of work done by these great people because they take pride in their parish. Imagine going out every day picking up litter, cleaning the streets with a power hose and cutting the grass. These people are being asked to sign their life away and indemnify everyone. It is not on. As I said, there is a fair difference between cities and rural areas and between a big town and a small one. I do not fully understand the rule that applies to villages where over 1,000 cars pass through daily but they seem to be in a pure quagmire altogether. Anyone cutting grass within so many metres of the road in these villages has to put up a sign, even though there is no interference with traffic.

I want to know how we are going to solve this for people in Glenamaddy, Creggs, Milltown and places like that because they do not know what they are doing. Then we have the bodies that are over the RSS and Tús saying they will look at a job but they need the group doing it to indemnify them. I am wondering why the GRDs of this world have insurance at all when they are being indemnified by the local group and Galway County Council. Lord Jesus, nothing could go wrong with all the indemnification they have. Someone needs to step up to the mark and take the pressure off the ordinary people who go out in the evening after coming home from work. They are not getting paid. They get absolutely nothing for it. Such is the responsibility being put on them now that they are afraid of their lives because of this insurance.