Mr. Jim Gannon:

I will pick up on points Mr. Armstrong has not mentioned. I agree with him on modular off-site building. We have significant interest in some of the technology coming into this area, as it can improve consistency of build and quality. That is quite important. In terms of building integrated PV, in our research, development and demonstration programme, we recently have supported a number of projects on that, as well as across different building technologies that are coming our way. I may list some of those and provide accessible links for members who might be interested after the meeting.

Confidence in the supply chain comes from the Government not only setting out an ambition, which is currently 2030 and 2050, and also articulating the level to which we need the supply chain to respond, but also putting in place some of those facilities. A supply chain will know that not many of its clients can afford to do that right now and it will know that not many people are working on it right now. Something not considered terribly well is the value chain where the homeowner must make the decision to do something, the contractor must make the decision to do something, as must the architect and engineer, and they must all decide to do that, rather than doing something else. If there is a greater profit margin to be taken from new build, it is natural that people would tend towards that activity than another. That is why we need to increase some activity in retrofit but prepare for the opportunity that will come. We should push harder in that direction and lean into an economic challenge this time around.

There was an interesting dialogue earlier on how we could see a 70% 2030 target interacting with heat pumps. It is worth noting that there are two types of challenges which arise. One is the daily challenge where the wind will blow for six hours and then will not blow - heat pumps, smart meters and electric vehicles can help us with that - but there is also a seasonal challenge where our heating season is really four, six, seven, eight months and is changing thanks to climate change. In those summer months there is not the need for heat. Its ability to serve that responsiveness declines. We need to keep in mind both the instantaneous response and the long-term seasonal aspect, where there is a heating season of a certain length.

The first phase of the renewable heating incentive scheme in Ireland called the support scheme for renewable heat, SSRH, commenced last year for heat pumps only in the commercial sector, not for people in large industry who are already dealt with in the emissions trading scheme. It relates to that cohort which is not already forced to do something and which is now being incentivised to do something at the other end. Very recently, state aid approval was provided for a support scheme for renewable heat that looks at biomass and other aspects will come through. It was determined to use a capital grant for heat pumps because the challenge there is with an upfront cost, as distinct from supporting the kind of biomass fuel that will come over ten or 15 years. This was down to extensive analysis, economic, supply chain and otherwise, of what Ireland could be hoped to pursue. We had excellent, frequent communication, including several visits, with Ofgem in the UK and our peers in Scotland and Northern Ireland to ensure that economically, the best value for money would be achieved while incentivising the activity we wanted. In fact Ofgem in the UK is looking at some of the mechanisms put in place in the Irish SSRH to see if it can bring them back to its own scheme. We are comfortable that we are benchmarking well but we will not know until one, two or three years' hence as to where the economic activity came in. Separately, part of what we must do is admit to ourselves that we cannot anticipate how a value chain will respond to an incentive. It might need to be changed and tweaked, which is natural. That is how one approaches any economic incentive or any type: one responds to what one is told by the market and one ensures value for money.