Mr. Pat McCormack:

Senator Mulherin and Deputy Martin Kenny made similar remarks. They were concerned about the face and fabric of rural Ireland. In my presentation this afternoon, that was a critical concern for ICMSA. We have to be careful and clear that we understand where we are. We sat here listening to what was put forward from this side of the table, which is that beef finishers and producers, and weanling producers had direct payments of between 103% and 112% of their income. That means that their business model as it stands subsidises the beef industry. We need to be careful on two accounts. If funding is made available for suckler cows, it should not further subsidise another part of our industry.

If there is funding to be made available for the suckler cow, it is important that it is not further subsidising another element of our industry. The second thing is that we need to look at where additional funding can be found to fund that, whether at national or European level. We also need to remember that at the moment, less than 50% of Irish beef comes from the suckler herd, so a suckler subsidy is supporting less than 50% of our beef output. We need to put that in context. Some things are in our control, but more things are not. Brexit is not in the control of this House, but of a House on the other side of the sea. The beef grid, however, is an Irish issue, and we need to take control of that. Since becoming president, I have sat at the beef forum, and I also sat there on one or two occasions before that as deputy president. ICMSA policy has always been to review the beef grid, and yet that policy has fallen on deaf ears. The Irish finisher may have lost more than €100 million in a six month period over Brexit. We do not deny that, but, to a degree, it is outside of our control. It was highlighted earlier that we had an independent report, and that showed €121 million in six years that is inside Paddy Irishman's control. That beef forum needs to re-engage, and be fully engaged and put the interests of the beef finishers at the helm.

The consumer was mentioned. Deputy Ryan raised the flag and then did a runner. It was very disrespectful to the other two farm organisations that he did not wait for an answer, and I would like for that message to be sent loud and clear to him, Chairman. The consumer needs to engage, but the consumer also needs to be educated that what Irish farmers are producing is a unique product, whether it is dairy or beef, and I do not want to differentiate between dairy beef or suckler beef. It is a unique product, and it needs to be economically sustainable if consumers want to have it on their shelves in the future. That will ultimately come at a cost for them. The model needs to change. I would fully agree with Deputy Corcoran Kennedy there, because we are a grass-fed system.

On Deputy Fitzmaurice's point on cattle in sheds, they are in sheds directly for meat processors, and for meat processors' agents. Very few people talk about Santa Claus, but in a separate context we would all be talking about Santa Claus, his elves, and the reindeer, and that is what the agents are. They are part and parcel of the meat processing industry. There is a register of cattle hauliers out there, and there is also a register of cattle agents, so it would not be very difficult for somebody with more influence than myself to come up with a list of agents, their herd numbers, and how many cattle they are sending into the factory. We quoted the figure of 54,000 for January and February, and my belief is that the number of cattle under the control of agents is probably double that. Where are these factories keeping their cattle? They are keeping them in farmyards where family farms and farmers made a living in the past, but found themselves to be non-profit-making, where cashflow was getting tighter, and where they were not in a position to re-stock and gamble. Ultimately, those farmers are now working for the processor, feeding those cattle.

There are a lot of issues as to why young men cannot get into the industry. It is not just a reference, Deputy Fitzmaurice. It is because we are forced into working significantly longer hours than those earning an average industrial wage, to earn, in a lot of scenarios, significantly less than the average industrial wage. That is an education piece that needs to go right out there to the consumers, to show them that it is not sustainable. Deputy Ryan mentioned The Lancetreport, which recommended that we "may" need to cut back on our beef and dairy. The Lancetreport from two years previously, however, highlighted that having beef and dairy in one's diet put one in a position where one would live for 10% longer. There needs to be consistency in the argument. Deputy Ryan is flying people into Tullamore midweek. That is an aviation issue and there is a carbon footprint to that, so he needs to be consistent. He cannot just pick one aspect of his life, such as his diet. He needs to be very consistent.

Renewables are something that were on our pre-budget submission in the last period of time.

Deputy Cahill mentioned the knackery costs, which came in as a result of BSE. A look at them is long overdue. For a person unfortunate enough to lose a calved heifer, or a young animal, whether dairy or suckler, they are paying €100 on top of the loss of the animal to have it removed. It is absolutely imperative that the export of animals over 450 kg becomes vibrant, because that is the one thing that will compete with the finisher and his elves at the ringside, because it is his elves he sends there.

As regards the exports, they are an absolutely critical part of our industry. Going forward, we need to get between 300,000 and 500,000 calves moved. I visiting some fabulous export facilities and Mr. Healy is right that many people in the country would be glad to have accommodation as good. However, they are registered. It is time that ownership is taken of those exporters and that they are brought together to have the facilities in place for next year. If there were an opportunity for a walk-on, walk-off boat, which is what was mentioned here, it should be fully endorsed. We need to be in a position in 2020 to use that facility for a peak period of time.

The jersey cross was mentioned, and I am not going to shy away from it. We have members who have made that decision and they are quite happy with it. We never promoted jerseys, and if one looks at where they were promoted, and where they are, it is on the co-op owned farms, experimental farms, and our farm advisory service farms around the country. I would be very slow to tidy up somebody else's mess. We need to be very careful about the potential for damage to the beef industry from that, and that is why we fully endorse the beef index for dairy herds. We have worked with exporters on trying to come up with sires that would deliver a decent carcass into the future from the jersey cross. I do not know whether my colleagues want to come in or not.