Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 13 March 2019

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs

Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland

Mr. Adrian Tennant:

I will address the Deputy's question about communication before asking my colleague Mr. Elliott to answer the question about the helpline. Dr. Lawlor may also come in on some of these issues.

The letter from Tusla to Scouting Ireland, dated 18 February, was received on Friday, 22 February. We had given the Minister, Deputy Zappone, and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs a commitment that we would be very open and transparent with them to ensure any information that came our way would be relayed to them. It is a two-way street. It is very important that nothing blind-side either side. We have made that commitment and stick to it. On the Monday morning, the first available working day, communications were made to the Department. It is important to note that we did not provide and have still not provided a copy of the letter for the Department. We let it know that such a letter had been received and that we were managing the matter. At the last session there was no discussion of the fact that a meeting with representatives of Tusla and An Garda Síochána had taken place on the Monday. I referred to that meeting in my opening statement. Mr. Elliott may come in on this issue. As we were all shocked by the letter, the pertinent question we asked at that meeting was whether the representatives of both agencies - An Garda Síochána and Tusla - were happy with the interactions between Scouting Ireland and their respective agencies. We also asked whether they were happy with our level of commitment and the progress we were making and whether they had particular concerns. They confirmed that they had no burning issues and no particular concerns. The issue with the helpline was also mentioned, albeit to a lesser extent. Mr. Elliott will confirm the details in that respect. We subsequently came to the opinion that we were dealing with the letter. The letter had arrived on the Friday and this was on the Monday morning. By Monday afternoon we had met Tusla and mentioned the letter. We asked it to confirm whether there was anything outstanding or anything with which it was not happy. It confirmed that everything was fine. The Tuesday was a quieter day in the office in that respect.

On the Wednesday the Department made contact with us about the letter. I made it clear that we would be greatly concerned if some of its content was to get into the public domain. I was thinking, in particular, of the content related to cases A, B and C because the children involved were still members of our organisation and had a duty to protect them. Those concerns were made known and, in fairness to the Department, they were accepted. By no means, was there a standoff between Scouting Ireland and the Department in that regard. I received a further communication later that day informing me out of courtesy that the Minister would be raising the issue in the Dáil and would read the letter. That communication also confirmed that the letter would be published later that evening. There was no argument, discussion or anything more about it. In fairness to the departmental officials, they were letting us know out of courtesy that this was coming and we accepted it as such.

On the Wednesday we immediately sought a meeting with Tusla. I sent a letter on behalf of Scouting Ireland to the chairman of Tusla - my reciprocate in that organisation - to try to organise a meeting as a matter of urgency. It was as a result of those communications that the meeting of 7 March was constituted. It is not the case that there were no discussions between that time and 7 March. There was constant communication during that time and there has been constant communication since the meeting. Tusla and Scouting Ireland have a track record of working together on a number of fronts, including on the historical cases with which we are dealing, our ongoing review of compliance with Children First and the current cases being examined.

Does that answer the Deputy's question?