Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 21 February 2019

Public Accounts Committee

Business of Committee

9:00 am

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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Fine and I thank the Deputy. An attachment came with the letter with the heading, national broadband plan state aid compliance update on the mapping of Eir's rural extension plan, dated 8 March 2017. There is a suggestion that we do not publish this because it is marked privileged and confidential. However, they have redacted sections of the report, produced by PwC, on pages 6, 7 and 8, obviously in relation to matters that could be commercially sensitive. I propose that we double check with them that we can publish the redacted form. We can deal with the redacted issues separately. From my reading of this report, they have obviously redacted the bits that they consider sensitive. We will get clearance to publish the redacted version of that appendix that came with that letter as well.

The next item is correspondence No. 1977 from the HSE, providing a note requested by the committee regarding the involvement of PricewaterhouseCoopers with BAM. The HSE advises that there is a framework in place for the provision of professional services to assist in the programme for health service improvement. The framework provides resourcing and expertise to be drawn down from PwC as required. So we will note and publish this letter. The HSE is saying that as far as it is concerned, there is no accounting. That is its position. We note and publish that.

No. 1980B is from the office of the Secretary General of Department of Finance stating that he is unavailable for a meeting on 7 March 2019. We now have Robert Watt, Secretary General of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, coming to that meeting. We will reschedule for the Department of Finance as soon as practicable thereafter. The cancellation suited the other meeting. That is noted and published.

No. 1981B is from the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. It provides an update to a query raised by the committee on agreeing a contract for the position of chief executive of the authority. The authority advises that a contract has been concluded under terms and conditions approved by the Minister. We will note and publish that. We had a particular query on that.

No. 1983B is from Mr. Robert Watt, Secretary General of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, on his attendance at a Committee of Public Accounts meeting to discuss the oversight and implementation of capital projects. Mr. Watt is making himself available to the committee on 7 March. He has drawn attention to three other invitations from other Oireachtas committees. He has also drawn attention to Standing Order 84(2), an internal Oireachtas Standing Order. Members will be aware of this and should keep it in mind in terms of how we proceed. While we all agree duplication should be avoided, the committee has never relied on Standing Order 84(2).

We should deal with the other letters. Essentially, I want to make one thing clear. We have already discussed - it was noted at our previous meeting - the position when we decided to invite Robert Watt before the committee. We specifically framed the invitation around oversight and implementation of capital projects. We want to know the governance and oversight arrangements. We made no reference to the children's hospital. That would have been specific to the Joint Committee on Health and a different Accounting Officer. It is the case that major capital projects will be asked about on the day he comes in, including broadband, Luas lines, light rail, schools and so on. Our invitation was not specific to the children's hospital. He is coming before the committee to discuss oversight and implementation of capital projects. He has asked our committee to notify the other three committee chairmen of this issue even though they were copied with the correspondence.

At this stage - I appeal to committee members to bear with me - we have received letters from two other committees on this issue. I want to note No. 1990B. It is a copy of a letter from Deputy Colm Brophy, Chairman of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight, to Robert Watt. His letter to us says his committee invitation predated our invitation. I note in that letter of invitation to Robert Watt he discussed twice the issue of health expenditure and the national children's hospital. He was specifically asking about the children's hospital. We did not ask about that. We asked about overall capital project oversight and implementation and governance of capital projects. I can understand that he might not want to talk on a matter that is specific to one Department. That is a matter between him and the Committee on Budgetary Oversight.

There is also a letter on file from Deputy John McGuinness, Chairman of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach. He also says in a letter to Mr. Robert Watt dated 19 February that he accepts the prospect of meeting all four committees on different issues or different aspects of the national children's hospital might be regarded as unduly onerous. He accepts there should not be duplication. However, I want to make it clear that we never invited Robert Watt specifically on the national children's hospital. It is not right to suggest that we were asking about the children's hospital.

I propose to notify the other committees that our meeting is going ahead. We note their specific references to the national children's hospital. That is a different issue from what our meeting is about. The purpose of the meeting of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach in particular is different. I imagine Mr. Watt is accountable to that committee. That committee can deal with Mr. Watt in due course.

We will not get into political argy-bargy with other committees but we have letters and we are proceeding. The wording of the invitation from other committees to Mr. Watt is a matter for them. Our invitation is different and he is coming before this committee. Other committees can take it up with Mr. Watt in due course in their manner.