John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Can I clarify something raised by Senator Conway-Walsh relating to procurement and the ability of Departments and so on to deal with procurement issues and overruns? It appears to me from listening to the exchanges here that the Department of Health was the bad apple in this barrel. It has a history of overruns. It cannot live within its budget year to year. It seems to have contaminated that process and the communications systems between the board, the Department of Health and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. It is not so much the procurement process. People in responsible positions seem to have failed to carry out their full duty to report the expected measure of overspend. I imagine these are not junior officials but senior officials within the Civil Service who should be more aware of the budgetary and political consequences. There was a failure of communication within the Minister's Department and I heard clearly what the former Minister, Deputy Howlin, said today about reporting and such.

The clarification sought by Senator Kieran O'Donnell was about the final cost. The Minister said that it was €1.4 billion but may go beyond that. A figure of €1.7 billion was mentioned, and another of €2 billion. Are the groundworks included in the €1.4 billion?