Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the members of the board for appearing before the committee. From my point of view as a member of the Oireachtas committee on children, the purpose of the review was that it would be the safety net for the committee and that independent external assessors would do a review of Oberstown. As Professor Kilkelly stated, this is the fourth time she has appeared before the committee. The review was set in a context where Oberstown was continuously in the media in 2016. There was an incident with gardaí and the centre was on the front pages of the papers week in, week out. It was at such a dangerous stage that I felt a life could be lost.

When we learned that an external group would review the issue, it brought some calm and comfort that we, as an Oireachtas committee, were doing our job. That was part of the communication among the committee, the board and the operational manager on campus, and it was part of the dialogue we had with the Minister. As spokesperson for children for my party, I never expected not to have the whole document, because that is what it was all about, whether it was a redacted version or whatever. Having the recommendations without the other part of the review does not make sense.

Professor Kilkelly spoke about unlocking hearts and minds, but it was about a root and branch, as far as I was concerned. That was what I wanted for Oberstown and it was what I needed to know. I agree that many reports and reviews were taking place, one of which related to the buildings, and I acknowledge there were many staffing and other issues. My core issue, however, is the protection of the children in the centre. There are 90-odd recommendations but I cannot tell what policy is part of the pillars of its foundation. Whatever part of law it relates to, we need to know where we can steer Oberstown. We are working in a vacuum. I do not accept that time ran out before a final version could be produced because given that the two gentlemen, Professors Goldson and Hardwick, appeared before the committee, I imagine there was a meeting of minds of both parties to produce the report somewhere along the line.

Does the board of directors of Oberstown have liability insurance? If so, how much does it cost? As someone who is examining the issue from outside, I note that only two people are named in the whole report. I think the production of the report has created fear in the board. Anybody who has sat on a board of directors would have ensured there was insurance to protect it.

Professor Kilkelly referred to HIQA and noted that while recommendations have been made, Oberstown has made progress and taken numerous steps forward. I have a copy of the HIQA report, which outlines two five-day inspections with five inspectors. I cannot find comfort in reading the report. While the situation might have improved, the report refers to external parties to the board not attending meetings, and states that Tusla had not attended "a number of months" of meetings. Why is Tusla not required to be present at all board meetings? Page 30 of the HIQA report states: "In addition, the chairperson of the board of management told inspectors there was no Tusla representative in attendance at board meetings for a number of months [...] and the absence of a representative from Tusla directly impacted the Boards ability to prioritise and address these inter-agency matters." That is an important factor when talking about decisions to move forward. I accept that the purpose of the meeting is not to discuss the HIQA report, but it is relevant if we are to place the recommendations in context and if the aim is to move forward. Why and how was a child left in separation for 12 days? Why was physical intervention used in ten incidents and what kind of physical intervention was used? I am giving only a background. We are like mushrooms in this regard. We do not have the report and it needs to be given to us.

At no point along the line have the Minister or Oberstown given us any comfort that what was produced is working and that those key recommendations are being followed through on. That is where I am coming from and I would like the witnesses to respond to what I have said.