Mr. Pat McLoughlin:

We certainly have not caused any of the HSE's deficits. In 2013, we received €11 million from it and in 2018, we received €11.2 million. In terms of what has happened, with 4,000 new people being diagnosed with dementia each year, in effect the services have ended up being rationed. People who might have been receiving two or three days a week in a day centre have been rationed. We are paying our staff at 2010 rates of pay. The differential between someone who commenced in the HSE in 2010 versus 2017 is now €5,500 per annum. That is for a care assistant providing direct care.

We evaluate satisfaction with our services. It is consistently high because we have the same staff. They have empathy, they are trained and they are not into clock watching or pressure to go to another client. People with dementia and their carers tell us that even if the State can give them only seven hours a week, they want the flexibility as to how that seven hours is used rather than giving one hour a day to get somebody up in the morning. By the time the carer arrives, the person may be already up. They may be living in a rural area. They cannot get the time even to go into a shop. Even if the HSE can give only a certain number of hours, it should give families and carers some role in determining how that is provided.