Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I thank Mr. Kiely for making himself available to us again. The European project has been the greatest success in modern history but also, in some ways, the greatest failure. The success is in the way every aspect of Irish life has developed and changed in the 45 or so years in which we have been members. The benefit to this country has been phenomenal. The failure is that it has become a bureaucratic animal that is somewhat detached from citizens on the ground. The work of Mr. Timmermans on subsidiarity might change that over time and I hope it does because one of the great strengths of the European Union is our diversity. We recognise that no two countries are the same and I hope that continues to be the case. There is no way to make a single culture throughout Europe so we must respect the cultures of all our neighbours and friends in Europe.

I would like to see a Europe that gets closer to the citizens in the post-2019 election era.

There is a greater need for engagement at the lowest possible level, the level of the citizen. That may put a lot of pressure on the delegates' office in the forthcoming elections. That is where Europe wants to go anyhow. While we have enjoyed the benefits of Europe, we have very quickly forgotten where they are coming from. When we are constantly getting goodies from the table and nobody is telling us how they are being paid for or brought about, we need a much better understanding among citizens. Students going through university are very aware of the benefits of being members of the European Union but that does not necessarily mean everyone is. The farming community is aware but I sometimes wonder whether farmers regard themselves as members of the Union where the Common Agricultural Policy is concerned and really do not put a lot of thought into it beyond that context. I do not know the position on that.

I hope we will not see any treaty change in light of Brexit. God forbid that we would bring that down on top of ourselves.

With regard to the point made on security, there is no doubt but that there is a threat to the security of Europe. There is a long-held view in Ireland that this is a neutral country. That, of course, is not true. We are militarily non-aligned, which is vastly different from being neutral. I cannot envisage our status within Europe changing, however, notwithstanding the fact that we have agreed to become part of PESCO. We can take from PESCO the elements we want. I become a little concerned when I hear President Juncker and others talking about the establishment of some form of European defence force. That will not sit well with the Irish.

The issue of migration is a bigger issue than Brexit. Brexit will come and go, and commerce will survive. The migration issue is a different one. I am interested in hearing the representatives' thoughts on the fact that we have moved migration from the Mediterranean back to Libya. What sort of monitoring is taking place in Libya of the asylum seekers, refugees or economic migrants? What supervision is there of their treatment by Europe? Europe has clearly blocked the road in. We have provided incentives to the north Africans, including those on the coast of north Africa, to find alternatives to people losing their lives in the Mediterranean. If this is locking them into some sort of internship and if they are being treated badly, however, it would be terrible. Have the delegates any information on that?

I am delighted we are talking about investing in jobs in Africa. That is the only way to keep people there. Let us be honest that the migration from central Africa is all economic. Unless we provide incentives for people to stay at home, the migration will continue. Who could blame the migrants?

Mr. Kiely will be well aware that we claim 70 million Irish people worldwide. That is all down to migration from this country. This is an important point. I am interested to know whether we are managing the inward migration.

With respect to Brexit specifically, we had a lot of discussion at COSAC on the expansion of Frontex. Version 2 or version 2.1 of Frontex is on the way. It will see some 10,000 personnel employed in border management. Although some of my colleagues will disagree with me, I have never held the position that there will be an open border in Ireland in a post-Brexit world. There will be free movement, or movement as free as it possibly could be. Do the witnesses envisage Frontex being brought into this country? While we might want to cross the Border with goods and services and while we might want people travelling over and back to work, I wonder how long the Europeans would tolerate migration through the Irish open border. Will there be a Frontex presence here?

That concludes what I have to say. I thank the witnesses once again for attending.